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Author Topic: adultery  (Read 14759 times)

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dre91

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adultery
« on: December 30, 2011, 02:36:48 PM »

My wife and I have been separated for over a year now. Our divorce will be final on January 13, 2012. I tried to reconcile with my wife but she still wanted the divorce after I told her I believed in universal salvation. Six months after we separated I met another woman. I know I'm committing adultery because we're co-habitating. Her children live with us too. My conscience is really bothering me as I draw near to my divorce date. I feel as if I've failed God and I feel ashamed. After my divorce is final I have thought about marrying her immediately.
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mharrell08

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Re: adultery
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 02:50:45 PM »

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7413.msg58866.html#msg58866):

Dear Max:  There are a hundred good reasons why I don't get involved in counseling people in divorce and remarriage situations and other legal matters.  One ends up in the same situation as Paul called "endless genealogies."  I assume you may be referring to your own marriage with this question?  Okay, so you marry a woman who was not legally divorced based on her husband committing adultery. They just divorced for whatever reasons. Now then, are you legally married to her and is she legally married to you?  Well........has her husband remarried?  Cause if he did, then he IS committing adultery, seeing that your divorce was apparently not legal in God's eyes.  So now that he is married (legal or not) to another and having sex (adultery) with another woman, she could not legally divorce him on grounds of adultery. But you are already divorced, he is now married, and she now married.  Okay, suppose her husband is not remarried and is not committing adultery, then what?  Should she legally divorce you according to the laws of the law, and remarry her old husband if he will have her?  What if he really does WANT HER?  And what if she really decides that she did love him and wants to divorce you now and remarry her old husband?  Can they do that?  (In "God's" eyes?)
     
    What if you die, and your present wife who is not legally divorced because there was no adultery in her first marriage, wants to remarry a third man, and the third man is legally divorced because his wife did commit adultery, can she marry him if her first husband will not take her back, even though he never did commit adultery on her when they were married?  But what if your wife really did commit adultery in her first marriage, but her first husband forgave her and didn't want to divorce her, but she wanted to divorce him, because she felt guilty for betraying him? Can she divorce him if it was her who committed the adultery, and then marry you?  I could go on like this for hours and hours.
     
    It's just more "endless genealogy," and I won't get involved in it. Furthermore, NO ONE will divorce their mate if they love them, no matter WHAT I would say, so this whole conversation is pretty close to pointless.  Furthermore, I don't believe that I have ever had anyone tell me the absolute truth when asking me to "settle" such convoluted marital situations.
     
    Listen:  You cannot UN-ring a bell.  Sometimes it is not possible to go back and straighten out all of the convoluted mistakes we made in life and such things as marriage and remarriage. Repent for what you have done and for what you are and GO ON with you life.  If a husband BEATS his wife, or ABUSES the children, or does NOT PROVIDE food and shelter for his family, or is totally IMMORAL, or DESERTS his wife, or DIES, then the wife is not expected to remained married to such a man if she does not desire, and the same is true she the wife commit these crimes.  Almost all other things are just excuses to have one's cake and eat it too. I hope this has been a little helpful to you.
    God be with you,
    Ray



Obviously your situation isn't exactly like this person who emailed Ray. But the same good counsel remains: You can't undo anything that has been done, so just repent for what you feel you have failed at and move on.

You're already living together and that isn't going to change. A rushed marriage could actually make matters worse. Take your time and do things when you both feel it is the right time.



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: adultery
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 05:39:28 PM »



Fear drives all futile decisions that can end in disaster Dre91. Fear of judgment. Fear of not pleasing God. Fear of doing the wrong thing and earning death. Fear, fear, fear.

I was in a Confessional, telling the Priest that I was living with my now present husband. Not my husband at the time of the Confession! :D The Church (Catholic) refused to marry us, because my husband was divorced. I was told to either leave my husband or leave the Church.

I wish Ray Smith had been listening to my confession rather! LOL ;D

Anyway, what happened was, I left the Church...albeit...joined in a Pentecostal Church...out of the fire into the frying pan! LOL  ;D I figured, I can't sleep with the Church and my husband is warm and very cozy. Shoot me!

My wonderful husband and I were married and the few weeks prior to the wedding, we had a massive fight.

I knelt before God, alone in the bedroom at the bedside and said to God that I wanted to please Him. That I had the baby already, and the divorce, (emotionally speaking...we weren't very happy at that point )and now I wanted God. The emotional terrain of my relationship, to my husband, was in ruins. Funny how God gets you to speak to Him from the heart, when everything is in ruins! :D Not funny, ha ha...but...just how it happens to many.

I felt God ask me what I wanted and I said I loved Abrie, that is my husband today, and that if there was any disapproval of God making us man and wife, then He could take him...meaning that I was okay if God decided to take him...really...I was at the end of my rope and it was for God to decide. I loved Abrie then and that was my reply and I love Abrie today and that has only changed in that it has gotten far deeper with the Blessing of an approving God who caused us to marry.

We had no money and a person from the Church dropped by and said God told him to give us a check. The amount covered exactly the cost of the modest reception.

White rose petals were strewn in the passage up to the Alter where we received the Witness of becoming man and wife. The petals were given to my maid of honor who is a florist. She told me that on collecting her usual purchase of flowers, the owner had approached her and asked her if she would like to take the drums of white rose petals he had. She was elated and said she was to attend my wedding the very next day!

So God showed up in more ways than one, yet the journey of marriage has not been easy or a walk in the park but a deep journey of tested tried and fairy trials and tests to purge purify and make good with God who will not be disappointed in His Work of Love that is LOVE.

Keep loving and living and knowing trusting and depending on Love that is God! You'll do okay! It might not be with rose petals, but He is with you and can show you His gifts of Love in most unique ways that are intimate disclosures of His personal love for you. Ask and you shall recieve. It's His Promise! ask for LOVE and it is as asking for God, who is LOVE>

Arc
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: adultery
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 06:01:11 PM »



 Beautiful Jan...yes, beautiful JAN, dre, Marques and all! God's Light of Beauty conforming to His Image....the eyes of the beholder beholding God's beauty upon His creation so speaking, I and the Father are ONE.... 



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Heidi

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Re: adultery
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 07:40:23 PM »

dre91....my dad once said to me,"only God can hit a straight line with a crook-it staff".  Our lives are so intricate and full of dimensions and we all have a story to tell.  My point is this.....we muck things up BUT GOD is able to set things straight.  I agree with what Ray says, "repent".

Love in Christ Jesus
Heidi
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gmik

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Re: adultery
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 11:00:40 PM »

Dre91.....none of my business at all, BUT.....please tell me that this new lady DOESN"T mind your new beliefs or better still that she believes it.....

DO NOT marry out of guilt - get out of her bed/house if she doesn't know how you believe

but marrying cuz your sleeping together is NO reason to marry!!!


Again.....none of my beeswax but you did put it out there..... ::)
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River

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Re: adultery
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 11:58:16 PM »

I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\

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John from Kentucky

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Re: adultery
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2011, 02:48:11 AM »

I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\



Cohabiting becomes adultery when God says so.

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."  Hebrews 13:4

Sex outside marriage is sin.  It is one thing to show mercy to sinners.  It is another thing to show disrespect to God's laws.  We think too much of ourselves when we do so.

I am an unmarried man.  I want to have sex with women just watching them walk.  But I don't make the rules.  God's rules are so strict that just looking at women with lustful desires is sin.

Also, God made sex.  He is not shy about speaking about it.  An entire book of scriptures, the Song of Songs is about sexual relations between a man and woman, especially when you check the Hebrew references.  That book also has a higher spiritual theme.  It was one of the Festival scrolls read during the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread.

Ray has an excellent study on marriage and its scriptural definitions.
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octoberose

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Re: adultery
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2011, 04:10:36 AM »

Dear dre,
I appreciate many of the answers you've recieved so far but John is right- what are you doing with a woman you're not married to?! If your wife left you, so be it. There is only so much you can do about that ( she actually left you because you believe in universal salvation? ) But what kind of example are you to this other woman, and especially her children? Are you light and salt- are you beyond  reproach? Or are you doing what Romans 6 refers to as " sinning so that grace abounds?". Really, what are you doing?  >:(
Stop it. But do it without being unkind to the woman you're with- you've already taken what is not yours. How would you want to be treated if you were her? What is God telling you?
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dre91

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Re: adultery
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2011, 12:17:05 PM »

Thanks for your replies but the next time I will just keep my business to myself.
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Gina

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Re: adultery
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2011, 02:36:10 PM »

Dear Dre,

It's so easy for us to sit here and pass judgment, but I'm learning that except for a few minor changes I could be in your situation.  I have not forgotten you Dre.  I remember when you wrote to the forum about a year and a half ago.  I truly will pray that you find the peace you seek.  I'm so sorry that your wife dumped you because of your beliefs.  I'm so sorry that you feel like you can't bring your troubles to the forum (I would be feeling the same way as you right now--what you did took courage) and I'm sorry that you weren't comforted.  I pray the God of comfort comforts you greatly.

Jesus the Great High Priest

Hebrews 4:14-16

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Listen:  It's not that we might receive mercy and we might find grace to help us in our time of need, but that we will find it. 

Peace-out  :) ;)
Gina
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 02:41:08 PM by Gina »
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River

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Re: adultery
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2011, 11:33:41 PM »

I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\



Cohabiting becomes adultery when God says so.

"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."  Hebrews 13:4

Sex outside marriage is sin.  It is one thing to show mercy to sinners.  It is another thing to show disrespect to God's laws.  We think too much of ourselves when we do so.

I am an unmarried man.  I want to have sex with women just watching them walk.  But I don't make the rules.  God's rules are so strict that just looking at women with lustful desires is sin.

Also, God made sex.  He is not shy about speaking about it.  An entire book of scriptures, the Song of Songs is about sexual relations between a man and woman, especially when you check the Hebrew references.  That book also has a higher spiritual theme.  It was one of the Festival scrolls read during the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread.

Ray has an excellent study on marriage and its scriptural definitions.

You want to show me where it says COHABITING (NOT SEX)  is a sin? Not sure why you wrote all that to me, nothing I haven't heard before or read. But of course how are you to know that. So thanks anyway. You must have clearly misunderstood my post. And of course I show disrespect to God's laws. And of course you like everyone else thinks you have the scriptures all figured out so you get to claim what exactly is God's laws. On this site we challenge the deep embedded hell thinking which many others will fight to the death defending as God's laws as well. You proably think you have this "marriage" subject all figured out. Well I have good reason to doubt it and have scriptural proof as well to show it is not as you like to say it is. But of course we can't do that here and I have no desire to debate it. I just shared my thoughts, that is all. And I assume you did the same. Happy New Year to you!
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octoberose

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Re: adultery
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2012, 02:26:21 AM »

Hi River,
I'd  be interested to hear what you have to say. You can go on the facebook page and write what you believe you have uncovered. Nothing is easy for us. Its all easy in Christ (His yoke is easy,His burden light ). Hope to talk again later...
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Duane

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Re: adultery
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2012, 03:07:33 AM »

I think this all gets back to "free will" stuff.  God knew that even BEFORE Dre was created that Dre was going to be married and that Dre's wife was going to leave him and that Dre was going to meet another woman and be in the situation that he feels guilty about.  Dre did what human beings do--we sin!  But God knows all about the situation and will make His purpose come out of it.  Like David and Bathsheba--David should have been at war--not home!  Bathsheba could have gotten unexpected company and not bathed at the time David was on his balcony.  David could have got unexpected company and missed the "show".  David could have had sex with "Bathie" and it could have been the wrong "time of the month" to conceive. Any number of things COULD HAVE HAPPENED so the situation COULD HAVE BEEN avoided; but, she did conceive and the baby died.  But, ALL IS OF GOD-and we are responsible for our decisions. HOWEVER,  God's WILL will not be thwarted in Dre's life no matter what Dre does because God all ready knows the "beginning from the end" and we will pay in the Lake of Fire someday.  So Dre, (and WE) will be PURIFIED by FIRE and CLEANSED by BRIMSTONE until his sins "come out in the wash" so to speak--then he (we) will be perfect in God's sight!  (I owe this commentary all to Ray!)   
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Samson

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Re: adultery
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 01:08:41 PM »

I use to think way back that all this sort of stuff was cut and dry. And of course the churches always make it sound like that. But I have searched this matter out to no end and there is no exact way to do it. This is one of those subjects I don't agree on with most the forum members it seems. First off it always gets turned into a physical act it hangs on and second on the authority of pagan customs and government powers. And since when did co-habitaing become adultery? Later I see the term "sleeping together" comes up. Are we that afraid to talk about the reality of sex? Over 6 billion people alive on the planet, you know what that means don't you? This is one of those issues that the churches use to beat down people with. We have no free will right? But yet we say don't do this and don't do that. I understand why we do that but I really do think we get into a muddled religious mindframe with this subject. And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\




Hi River,

Just for information, there is an old thread from January 29, 2007 entitled: Living With A Woman started By Bradigans(He's no longer a Member) that Addresses this Type of Scenario, ie- Cohabiting with someone of the opposite sex without the benefit of a Legalized Marriage. Some of the "Players," involved in this Thread are no longer with us. Ray's Transcript on what constitutes a Marriage(Greek-Gamos, literally meaning "Nuptials") is the result of that Thread, because some Forum Members felt that no one needed a physical piece of paper to substantiate being Married in God's Viewpoint. This Article of Ray's was the one that John From Kentucky had alluded to in His first or second Post of this Thread, you might want to examine this Thread, there were 43 replies before it got locked.

On a side note that might be of interest to you, I joined the Forum in late 2007 into early 2008, approximately one year after that Thread, was already Married to Pam in April 2007, but 8-12 Months prior to Marrying Her, I had a similar mindset about whether or not I needed a Marriage Certificate in order to be considered Married in God's View. Pam and I were getting along so well, so I began to reason that this relationship of Ours is much superior to the ones where I was Legally Married, so " If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it." Upon joining the Forum in late December of 2007 I came upon Ray's article and subsequently finding that Thread from January of 2007(Living With A Woman) and I was unable to disprove Ray's proof showing that We needed to be Legally Married in order for Our Marriage to be acceptable in God's View. Read a few quotes found below in blue from Ray.

TERMS OF MATRIMONY

MARRIAGE:  Gk. gamos - NUPTIALS, marriage, wedding.  The CEREMONY and its proceedings including the ‘marriage feast.’

That’s the definition of marriage right out of the Bible.  Now do you see sex, intercourse, or love in there?  No.  Let’s read it again, nuptials, marriage, wedding - the ceremony.  CEREMONY……I want to show this to you over and over and over again, it will blow you away, it’s the ceremony and it’s proceedings, including the marriage feast or the marriage supper or what we call in the western world ‘the reception.’ 

NUPTIALS:  Noun; ‘A wedding CEREMONY’ (Webster’s Dictionary).  Adjective; ‘related to marriage or the wedding ceremony.’

That’s the first definition by Dr. Strong, it is nuptials.  It has nothing to do with having intercourse, loving each other, or producing children, nothing.  It means a wedding ceremony. 
The reason I decided to do this study, is because this person (email) is so hung up on the fact that ceremony has nothing to do with marriage.  The fact of the matter is, what he thinks is marriage has nothing to do with the definition of marriage, 180 degrees opposite direction. 
You can just go through dictionary after dictionary and Strong’s and you can look up all the words; marry, marrying, marriage, matrimony, look them all up, they all cross reference, they all produce the same truth……the wedding ceremony.

But all civilized cultures have that and it is an ordained institution of God supported in both the Old and New Testaments.  And although ordained of God, marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view.  Boy I can see the stones coming for saying that, but it’s true.  We’re talking about the definition of the word, what the word actually means.  If marriage was a spiritual institution, instead of a carnal institution.  Why do 50% of those getting married divorce?  What is spiritual about that?  If all the people got married into a spiritual relationship, there would hardly ever be a divorce.  But it’s not.  People go into marriage with a carnal mind, with physical expectations. 
Now most couples who get married do love each other, I’m not saying they don’t, I’m just saying it’s not a spiritual union.  They love each other and they have sex together, but the truth of the matter is neither one is required to define what a marriage is, neither one.  Just because you're married to someone doesn’t mean that you love them, right.  Does anybody agree with that?  It doesn’t mean you love them just because you are married and just because you love somebody doesn’t mean your married to them, am I also right.

How did Adam take Eve to become his wife?  Did they just go to bed and say, ‘this feels good, shall we be a couple, shall we get married?  No, we don’t need to get married, I’ll just take you as my wife and you’ll take me as a husband.  We don’t need to get to married, we’re living together having sex together, we’re husband and wife now.’  Is that how Adam and Eve started their marriage?
I mean this person in the email concedes that they were husband and wife.  Is that how they started?  No!  God has joined them together.  When is a man and a woman joined together?  When they have sex on the honeymoon?  No!  It is part of the ceremony of entering in the marriage.  It is not a part of just being together after you are married . 
“What God has joined…”   There is a point where the joining starts……here they are apart, and now we can put together that God brought the woman to the man, that’s like an espousal.  Then he joined them together.  How did he do that?  Did He push their bodies together?  Come on, let’s not get lewd.  He joined them together as husband and wife in the garden, before they ever came together or had sex or had children. 
God joined them together, that’s what nuptials are.  You take a vow and what happens at the end of the ceremony?  What does the minister usually say?  I now pronounce you husband and wife.  Why?  Because they are now joined together. 
Did they have sex?  No.  What did they do?  They took the vows, they formed a covenant in front of witnesses, in a ceremony called a wedding in a public gathering.  That’s what marriage is.  It’s the joining of a unmarried man and a unmarried woman together in a public setting with witnesses, exchanging vows and making a covenant to be husband and wife with one another as long as you both shall live.  That’s what a wedding is.  That’s what nuptials are.  That’s what ‘marry’ means, that’s what a marriage is, that’s what starts the matrimony of two people.

Marriage would probably been better translated matrimony, that is actually the marriage state, when a couple are married and living together as husband and wife.  That institution there, matrimony.  But notice what He contrasts it with…matrimony is honorable, what is matrimony?  It’s somebody who went through a wedding with exchanging of vows and forming a covenant. 
What if you don‘t do that?  What about people who say, ‘well, I just want to live together and have sex and never get married.’  They never commit and they say, ‘I don‘t want a piece of paper, she knows I love her.’  Yea well you just keep telling yourself that and maybe she doesn’t know that, maybe you’ve halfway convinced her. 
Notice what He contrast it with…… matrimony.  The marriage institution is honorable and the bed undefiled - having sex together as a husband and wife.  The word undefiled, that’s kind of a semi-negative to me, the word is pure.  Why put undefiled?  The word is pure.  The marriage bed between a husband and wife is pure in God’s eyes.  It’s pure to have sex with your wife or your mate, that’s pure. 

But notice what the opposite is, if it’s not marriage,  “…but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”  If you are not in matrimony in your wedding bed, what does God consider you?  A whoremonger and a adulterer.  Now do I need to read Rev. 21:8, “All whoremongers will find their place in the Lake of fire.”  Is that not clear enough there?  People don’t put these things together.  If you are not married, but you live together, you are a whoremonger and adulterer. 

Comment: There is no way around the Greek Word "Porneia," it comes from a root word which means " to sell," and although it has a broad meaning that includes all kinds of Immorality like Spousal Abuse and refusing to provide for ones family constituting " An Immoral Man," it's primary meaning consists of ALL sexual contact outside the Marriage Bond(Matrimony); ie- Beastiality, Premarital Sex,  Adultery(Greek-Moikeia), Homosexuality, etc. Scriptures to review are 1Cor. 6:9-11; Matthew. 19:3-9; Matthew. 5:31,32; 1Cor. 6:13("Body not for fornication"); 1Cor. 3:16("Flee from Fornication"); 1Cor. 10:8("Neither let us practice Fornication"); Ephesians. 5:3; Colossians. 3:5; 1Thessalonians. 4:3. Ray mentioned Hebrews. 13:4 regarding Marriage being honorable without defilement and end the end of this verse, it makes a distinction between "Adultery's & Fornicators," A person doesn't necessarily have to be committing Adultery in order to defile the Marriage bed, He & She could be practicing Pre-Marital Sex (Fornication) and be defiling the Marriage Bed and it's not an act of Adultery, but a type of Porneia.

Remember, none of the above is an attack of DRE91 or anyone else for that matter, the Scriptures are clear on this matter and there's no way around them, whether I'm disobeying this instruction or the Guy down the Street  and all of us know that this hasn't anything to do with Our Eventual Salvation. As Gina mentioned, DRE91 brought this situation up in the Past, DRE91 and I discussed His situation privately through phone conversations & Personal Messaging. Futhermore, I don't or wouldn't want the responsiblity or being accountable for telling DRE91 what choice He should make about Marrying whoever, I don't want the results of My suggestion coming back to haunt Me,  ;).

John From Kentucky's point about a Man living with a Woman without leading to Sex is realistic. I can't see how any full functional Heterosexual Male could possibly live with a Heterosexual Woman without resulting in some type of sexual activity. Quote from John from Kentucky below in Red, He gets the color Red,  ;D.

Man to man, do you truly believe a man can live with a woman and not have sex?  Really?   Roll Eyes


I fully agree with John's statement, Also living with a Woman without Marriage might constitute "An Appearance of Evil," towards those Neighbors & the Community. In other words, even if the Male & Female are living together and not having Sex, the feelings & consciences of others would be affected, at least those that know about it.

                     My contribution to this thread, That's all folks, Samson.


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Rene

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Re: adultery
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2012, 01:44:32 PM »


I fully agree with John's statement, Also living with a Woman without Marriage might constitute "An Appearance of Evil," towards those Neighbors & the Community. In other words, even if the Male & Female are living together and not having Sex, the feelings & consciences of others would be affected, at least those that know about it.

                     My contribution to this thread, That's all folks, Samson.
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I like and appreciate your contribution, Samson. :)

René
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octoberose

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Re: adultery
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2012, 09:10:07 PM »

I don't want to take the thread where it didn't begin, but I've been deciding weather to comment or leave well enough alone. Let me try this. God will be all in all, God will transform us and redeem our sins. Only God can do this. Now, where does my accountability begin? If I'm not walking in the Way of God, and I purposely do this, I am accountable. As Ray says, God is still responsible for us, but we are accountable. Jesus died a horrible death to redeem me and when I sin, I do not want to be comforted. I want to repent, and turn around and head the other way- straight to Jesus! So, if you hear me on this forum engage in willful, sinful behavior, TELL ME.
 Am I reading into it, or do I keep hearing, "All is of God" as if our sin doesn't really matter- as if to say, "Stain the garment, all you want, it will  come out in the wash". The wash is blood, the sacrifice of the Lamb. It is a terrible price to pay for my stain. And listen, I stain it. I know I do, from fear and thoughts and eating and unbelief. I really do stain it. But I don't want to, and if I have a prayer for this year it is to be transformed by Jesus becoming all and me becoming nothing.
 I have a lost and willful son. I would love it if he even stopped to wonder about his behavior and sought counsel the way Dre did. But he's not there, in that place where it matters and where conscience prickles. It kills me every day, and yes, I see God in the middle of this. But I let the sorrow define me and I've got to work on that too.
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olasupo jacobs

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Re: adultery
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2012, 10:06:21 PM »

Mat_12:39  And he answering said to them, `A generation, evil and adulterous, doth seek a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it, except the sign of Jonah the prophet;
Mat_16:4  `A generation evil and adulterous doth seek a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it, except the sign of Jonah the prophet;' and having left them he went away.

Mar_8:38  for whoever may be ashamed of me, and of my words, in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man also shall be ashamed of him, when he may come in the glory of his Father, with the holy messengers.'
Mat_5:28  but I--I say to you, that every one who is looking on a woman to desire her, did already commit adultery with her in his heart.
Mat_5:32  but I--I say to you, that whoever may put away his wife, save for the matter of whoredom, doth make her to commit adultery; and whoever may marry her who hath been put away doth commit adultery.

pls don't b offended by this secular saying " an erected manhood has no conscience" is true as regarding cohabiting with d opposite sex. Body chemistry is heighten by proximity, except your are "graced" of the Lord you can't escape sexual temptation .The mere sight of gorgeous, voluptuous or well chiseled body can make one's fantasy to rise. of all sins why is the sexual related ones seems to be easily succumb to?....because its more appealling and promises gratification for the flesh...more so its something that starts from the heart(which is exceedingly weak by design from the creator...according to ray too weak to resist sin)..IMO it is good not to "touch" a woman as Paul Advised talk much less co-habit/live/or become close for many reasons.... the law of sin and death is easier to obey than d law of spirit of life in Christ....really it is God himself who can deliver us from being evil and adulterous which is the norm in this age that we are now. THERE IS A GREATER TENDECY THAT U WILL HAVE SEX WITH THE OPPOSITE SEX IN A CONFINED ENVIRONMENT JUST BECAUSE THE CLOSENESS FAVOURS "LIBIDINOUS" & "TESTOTERONIC" EXCITEMENTS THAT PROMISES A SHORT TERM GRATIFICATION OVER  DOING WHAT IS RIGHT/GOOD IN GOD'S SIGHT.
There is a "heart-o-meter"  called the conscience that judges us instantly whether we are right or wrong in all situations...the stronger believer knows the consequences and ramification of their actions while the baby believer can be excused on account of his ignorance...but not for too long
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River

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Re: adultery
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2012, 10:53:50 PM »

 Hey Samson,

    I have read all the material on this subject. But you know I can't really respond. I really wish the focus could be more on the higher spiritual application of marriage according to what I see in the scriptures. Your keeping it on the level of carnal sex, not I.
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mharrell08

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Re: adultery
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2012, 12:58:23 AM »

And with saying this I don't approve of just having sex for whatever reason, but I also think it is totally silly to think it is somehow legit just because someone is "married." I really hope others are able to see the depth of that statement. For me marriage has nothing to do with sex. Doesn't anyone see the deeper meaning of this parable?  :-\


1. Marriage is a commitment, not just a ceremony. The ceremony only symbolizes the commitment between husband & wife. It's not just a piece of paper, but rather a contract to represent the commitment. Ray talks about this extensively in the 'What is Marriage' bible study (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5675.0.html).

2. Yes, marriage is a parable of a higher truth. The same way a husband and wife commit to one another, Christ and His Elect commit to one another.

3. Sex within a marriage is also a parable of a higher truth. During sex, a man and a woman are inside each other's bodies. This is similar to Jesus' words, 'Abide in me, and I in you' [John 15:4].

4. So the question remains, what does sex outside of a marriage commitment represent? What does sex represent between 2 people NOT committed to one another?

First, understand this about God:

Ex 34:14  For you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God

Deut 32:21  They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God; They have moved Me to anger by their foolish idols...


Excerpt from 'Worship in Spirit & Truth (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5312.0):

Now if you look at the word jealous, there is any number of carnal humanistic definitions for the word jealous, none of which apply to God.  But there is one that applies to God and that is, intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity.  He is totally intolerant to anything that is disloyal or any infidelity.
Jealous means - intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity. 
Loyalty means - steadfast and faithful. 
Infidelity means - lack of loyalty.
Faithful means - worthy of trust, reliable, consistent with TRUTH. 

God is a jealous God in that He doesn’t tolerate anything less than this in disloyalty and infidelity. 

We’ve talked about infidelity in marriage, if you cheat on your mate, that is infidelity.  There is no sexual connotation with God, but with God it has to do with being loyal with what He says you should do or shouldn’t do.


Is this starting to come together yet? God does not tell us to abstain from sex outside of marriage just because. It's not some 'old-fashioned' doctrine of men.

Sharing your body with only your spouse is a sign of loyalty. Not just to your soon-to-be spouse but to the God you serve.

Sharing your body with anyone outside of your spouse is the EXACT OPPOSITE. It is a sign of infidelity, of disloyalty.

So whether you want to talk about a physical marriage, the physical act of sex, etc or rather what they represent at a 'higher spiritual application', the fact remains that sex outside of marriage is an act of infidelity and disloyalty. And the God we serve is a 'jealous' God, One who is intolerant of disloyalty and infidelity.


I read a good comment from Ray in a recent post: 'It's hard to obey Jesus until you begin to see the value in doing so'. And that is at the heart of these marriage/sex/co-habitating questions. Those who see no value in the commitment of marriage, no value in abstaining oneself from sexual activity until marriage, etc. will always look under any nook and cranny for a reason out of it. I know because I look to the same whenever I'm faced with an admonishment to stop doing something that I want to do. We all do, that's what makes us human. But that doesn't make it right.



Marques
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