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How to explain God's role in tradgedy
octoberose:
Whoops, those caps are larger than I intended!
thetruth:
Hello again,
One thing that helps me is knowing if it wasnt for Good AND Evil I could never be transformed to the image of Christ.
Hebrews:5:8 tough He was a Son,yet He learned obeidence by the things which He suffered.
Also another email answered by Ray may helpYyou further?
DEAR,RAY
I respect your view of the Bible,however i can not help but wonder when you say GOD knew when he made man and satan he already knew they would fail,and man would suffer sickness,pain,hardship,etc. WHEN THE BIBLE SAY GOD IS LOVE.THANKS RB.
Dear RB:
How does the fact that God is love contradict the fact that God knew exactly what Adam and Satan would do beginning in the garden? Okay, let's have it your way and believe that God DID NOT know that His creation, Adam, would sin. And that He DID NOT know that things would get so messy as they have. And that He DID NOT know that such a thing as sickness, pain, and hardship would ever come on the scene. And that God DID NOT "know the beginning from the end" (Isa. 46:10), and that He LIED when He stated that He does know. . And that God therefore LIED when He tells us that He has the ability to "count things that ARE NOT, as though they ARE" (Rom. 4:17). And that He LIED when we are told in Scripture that "God cannot lie" (Titus 1:2).
Does THAT unscriptural nonsense and approach make you feel better about God and the present affairs of mankind?
How is it that God knew so many detailed facts regarding the need for grace to save mankind from his sins "BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" if God did not know, and did not plan and prepare for these things, (I Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:4; II Tim. 1:9; I Pet. 1:20)?
God be with you,
Gina:
--- Quote from: octoberose on January 08, 2012, 05:26:26 PM ---Wow, you all are phenomenal. Now, please pray I can rely this with the same power and not water down the Word of God. It's going to take me some time to throughly read it all. I'll carry notes with me!
I wrestle with Luke 13:34 where Jesus says he longs to gather Jerusalem as a mother hen, but they were not willing. ...
--- End quote ---
Hi, Octoberbose
Would it help if I told you that I was highly offended about a year or more ago at what Jesus is saying in this Parable of the Ten Minas in Luke 19?
Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Below, is that parable in its entirety to put it in its proper perspective, and when we read it, it becomes abundantly clear that it is referring to the many called and few chosen--a tragedy to those without eyes to see.
The Parable of the Ten Minas
Luke 27 11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.a ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’
14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’
18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’
20“Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’
22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’
24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26“He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
But we don't stop there, like the many called who have not been given eyes to see. We who have been given eyes to see are now able to go below (or above, if you like) the surface meaning into the deep things of God to see and most importantly believe this: (1 Cor. 15:28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
I hope this helps you just as much as the person with whom you are discussing the subject. Perhaps the spirit of God will be merciful to that person as you converse and miraculously open their eyes to grandeur that lies beyond -- and accept it.
Gina
Gina:
p.s. I want to add that many times, God has prohibited me from being able to explain these things in a way others (who question the truths) will understand. And that points to the fact, God is not choosing everyone in this lifetime. So, please don't get discouraged if at first they don't understand after all the hours of researching and studying you've done. I think of Ray. How many has he been able to convince or convert? Not many, not many.
And people would rather see a sermon than hear one any day. I work at being that sermon every day and sometimes I fail, but Love never fails.
All the best to both of you.
Extol:
--- Quote from: thetruth on January 08, 2012, 07:01:55 PM ---Hello again,
One thing that helps me is knowing if it wasnt for Good AND Evil I could never be transformed to the image of Christ.
Hebrews:5:8 tough He was a Son,yet He learned obeidence by the things which He suffered.
Also another email answered by Ray may helpYyou further?
DEAR,RAY
I respect your view of the Bible,however i can not help but wonder when you say GOD knew when he made man and satan he already knew they would fail,and man would suffer sickness,pain,hardship,etc. WHEN THE BIBLE SAY GOD IS LOVE.THANKS RB.
Dear RB:
How does the fact that God is love contradict the fact that God knew exactly what Adam and Satan would do beginning in the garden? Okay, let's have it your way and believe that God DID NOT know that His creation, Adam, would sin. And that He DID NOT know that things would get so messy as they have. And that He DID NOT know that such a thing as sickness, pain, and hardship would ever come on the scene. And that God DID NOT "know the beginning from the end" (Isa. 46:10), and that He LIED when He stated that He does know. . And that God therefore LIED when He tells us that He has the ability to "count things that ARE NOT, as though they ARE" (Rom. 4:17). And that He LIED when we are told in Scripture that "God cannot lie" (Titus 1:2).
Does THAT unscriptural nonsense and approach make you feel better about God and the present affairs of mankind?
How is it that God knew so many detailed facts regarding the need for grace to save mankind from his sins "BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" if God did not know, and did not plan and prepare for these things, (I Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:4; II Tim. 1:9; I Pet. 1:20)?
God be with you,
--- End quote ---
Great e-mail thetruth, thanks for finding that! Though for years I've believed in God's sovereignty, I never thought of it this way...that the alternative--God not knowing what's going on--is a lot more scary than the belief that God creates evil. Such wisdom we get from Ray!
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