> General Discussions
questions. weighing heavily on my heart
Gina:
--- Quote from: onelovedread on January 23, 2012, 09:20:04 AM ---And it is the grace of God ONLY that will save us. But HOW and WHEN? What does it mean to be "under grace?" Answer:
"For the GRACE of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING US [Gk: ‘to train, educate, discipline, punish, chasten, instruct, learn, teach’] that, denying ungodliness and worldly lust, we should live soberly [with a sound mind], righteously, and GODLY, in this present world" (Titus 2:11-12).
--- End quote ---
lol In other words, it'll beat the hell out of us. (Heb 12:6, Rev 3:19)
See, where sin abounds, grace does much more abound. (Rom. 5:20)
Ouch!
Better believe it. lol
When I was a little girl and misbehaved and refused to stop, my nanny Priscilla would go to the kitchen, get a wash cloth and wet it reallll goooood. She'd ring that puppy up and just switch it real lightly on the backside of my leg just so it'd sting real good, no marks or anything. lol. That calmed me right down. haha! I'd be begging her -- No, No! Cilla! Don't, don't! Haha. By the time it was all over, we'd both be laughin. Well, sometimes. lol She "educated" me.
Revilonivek:
there will always be evils everywhere, it doesn't matter which race you are, what ethnic group you are, evil is always there..somewhere like for example.. we see the evils with Salem, Inquisition, 9/11 and so on, you get the idea... But they don't necessarily represent the good people or the majority in that ethnic group.
talk about perspective, like the present time, for some Christians, when they see the crazy extreme Muslim terrorist group doing crazy things, doing barbaric things like decapitating heads, because of the things they believe in, like crashing into the NYC towers all because they feel God approves it. and as a consequence, another religions, some Christians, some other religions feels that that terrorist group represent all Muslims when it really isn't true. as a consequence, they take it out on other Muslims that live here in our country. There are good Muslims that doesn't necessarily agree to that view. Now, let's go back to the time to that time, without internet, no phones, no wiki, or anything...
in a person with different religion mindset, they may believe that it is easy to just wipe the whole race just to BE SURE they will never come back? there are plenty of innocent people, like for example, many groups, like BT group doesn't represent the churchanity views, but other religions, like Hindu, and Muslim may still see us as a religion under Christianity and they see the evils that some Christians does, and declare us all people evil... automatically. and declare the whole race under chrsitianity wiped.. becuase they believe and think all Christians are evil..
I'm just saying- just because some does evil, doesn't' necessarily represent all in that ethnic group. you already know any religion are intolerant of ANY religion outside their religion. That applies to all religions. It never ends. Of course I feel for those innocent people involved. My heart goes to them.
did you not know that Israelites are commanded to rape women of other ethnic group and killed in front of children.. pregnant women dashed with the sword.. babies.. young children. and of course men. Their view is to punish them severely... traumatize by doing all of that.. It doesn't matter. Think of the genocide in Africa.
John, Actually Jesus taught us to be tolerant, by telling us to turn the other cheek when they do evil to us... as in putting a stop to all the violence that has been repeated over and over throughout history.. of course Jesus constantly insulted the pharisees with the old testament mindset. they believe in stoning any one who sinned no matter what size of sin, intolerant of every sin committed. He hated that mindset very much. The difference is, he doesn't act out like murdering them or chopping off their hands, feet, ears, tongue, or eyes. He insulted them. That's a big difference. He even defended a woman from being stoned to death because the pharisees feel she sinned and deserved to die. He said for any one who is without sin can stone her, but turns out they had sin and left..
No one is good. No one. I think what Jesus wanted is an end to all religions. all it does throughout history is kill one another. I look forward to the day Jesus comes back because that would mean all peace throughout the earth... and everyone becomes one mentally when it comes to what is righteous. No more murdering, raping, chopping off limbs, no more stealing, no more of that craziness.
Denise
Dave in Tenn:
Denise, let me give you one more perspective on 'seeing' the spiritual in this (and other similar) stories. The I'll shut up.
In my religious youth, I read this passage thinking "If I were God, what would I do?" I've also read it in carnal-minded hippy indignation thinking, "If I were an Israeilite, what would I do?"
But God let me live long enough and put me through experiences in His wisdom (which I still can barely fathom, even though I've lived through it) which made me a vessel of dishonor. Now I can read them and see that, spiritually, I am 'of the tribe' being destroyed.
It's foolish to imagine I am God. It's inappropriate and false for ME to imagine most of my past as an 'agent of righteousness'. I'm the one who is guilty of "sacrificing babies to false gods". Not many volunteer to die. In fits and starts, kicking and screaming sometimes (most of the time) it's become OK with me to die. That's 'turning the other cheek' too, isn't it?
God is not finished with my tribe. Even Sodom will rise again.
I can't make you 'get that'. I can just tell you what's in my heart.
Do good.
Revilonivek:
Dave,
I think the Jews totally misunderstood the laws God gave them. They saw it as an objective list of do's and don'ts. In fact they added more to the list. Making it harder and harder to keep. When Jesus came, He really blew their minds. He made sure that to keep the law was impossible to keep. Plenty of examples in the old testament-
The bottom line is God is interested in the heart, not the outward. They, in the old testament focused on the outward too much. The point, if they look on the outward, some will succeed, others will not. The old testament were full of those stories. It does show God's love, mercy, forgiveness and so on toward those people who were still on a carnal level of thinking. They were on a objective level of thinking. rather on a subjective or personal level of thinking with God.
I realize now that God did not “sugarcoat" their lives. They were all real people like us, with failures as well as great victories and successes. But through both the failures and successes, God maintained an intimate relationship with them. THAT should give us all hope! Right? I can see that very clearly that God likes to involve Himself in our lives even when we can’t live up to the “objective” commands of God’s law or our desires for Him.
I know we are fallible and our understanding is incomplete. God's is complete. Imagine how far we've come since the "BRONZE AGE" God desired to have a personal relationship. Look up exodus 20 for one example.. it shows how people were afraid of God. No faith and wanted someone else to lead them or interpret for them instead of having a personal relationship with God like Moses did. They lived during the objective age. Now, look at us, under the subjective age and understanding more and more of God's unconditional love. and after all that we've learned...our understanding is still incomplete. We think we understand that perfect love.. which we don't. not yet anyway..
I think it's more of a heart matter, The Jews thought they were accepted by God just because they followed the "rules or commands." The new testament commandments pretty much summed up to Love God and one another. I think that is subjective because we all get to learn and experience that wonderful love. the true love. and it That was why it was hard for me to look at the old testament. I just realized now. They were objective. Not subjective.
.
Gina:
--- Quote ---I realize now that God did not “sugarcoat" their lives. They were all real people like us, with failures as well as great victories and successes. But through both the failures and successes, God maintained an intimate relationship with them. THAT should give us all hope! Right? I can see that very clearly that God likes to involve Himself in our lives even when we can’t live up to the “objective” commands of God’s law or our desires for Him.
I know we are fallible and our understanding is incomplete. God's is complete. Imagine how far we've come since the "BRONZE AGE" God desired to have a personal relationship. Look up exodus 20 for one example.. it shows how people were afraid of God. No faith and wanted someone else to lead them or interpret for them instead of having a personal relationship with God like Moses did. They lived during the objective age. Now, look at us, under the subjective age and understanding more and more of God's unconditional love. and after all that we've learned...our understanding is still incomplete. We think we understand that perfect love.. which we don't. not yet anyway..
--- End quote ---
This is so cool.
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