> General Discussions

questions. weighing heavily on my heart

<< < (5/8) > >>

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: Revilonivek on January 22, 2012, 02:30:14 PM ---ez2u-

I take this with a heavy heart.. It bothers me greatly- others say to look at the old testament as allegories, but the point is, if it was true, it's hard to look at it as allegories. But to be frank, the old testament can teach us to move away from the carnal lifestyle, because of the destructive living they led.. making us want to be set apart... but still.. ordering women, children, pregnant women, babies, and so on to be killed just because they are of a different ethnic group and has their own cultures.   kills anyone who serves another religion other than His own..Seems very intolerant and unforgiving, and had no mercy. Unless they were justifying their actions believing that God approves it? we see that all the time even now.. 9/11, Salem, Inquisition, and so on?

One thought- since we know that people existed before Adam and Eve on earth but maybe the Jewish genealogy people were the ones God created with special attention in Genesis and the rest of ethnic groups were already there and He holds his Jewish people to a higher standard and is intolerant about inbreeding in the old testament with other ethnic groups? maybe?

I have no idea... Then all the sudden, the same God, (Jesus) in the new testament tells us to be tolerant of other people and turn the other cheek and forgive..love our enemies and so on..  It's so confusing..

From observing other religions that exist.. all religions perceive their own religion as the correct one and others and anyone outside that view are infidels.  if Jesus is the Yahweh God of the old testament.. He definitely taught differently now than back in the old testament. That bothers me.. 

I don't know...

Denise

--- End quote ---

Man existing outside the garden before adam an eve is, to my understanding, not to be taken as to mean any intelligent form of man, capable of knowing God, of agriculture, of reading and writting etc.. the man outside the garden, that cain came to know his wife from, was the now extinct neadrethals and other forms of humans which lead to, according to science, us homosapians. There is evidence that not only did we interbreed with these lesser "evolved" forms of humans but that we infact lead to their extinction.

In otherwords, i don't think these humans outside the garden were capable of culture as we know it etc.

Lastly, Ray has spoken about how some things are written from the relative perspective or the perspective of man, while others are written from the absolute perspective (God's perspective.) What if those parts we find so hard to understand in the old testament are actually written from the eyes of man and in so attempting to justify such horrendous and horrific events perpetrated by those in the old testament which seem to be in almost complete opposition to the Jesus we know of the new testament. Make sense?

It's always easier to say, God told us to do it and to get others to follow you then to own up to your own actions and say their was no justification for what was committed other then pure carnal madness.

I could be rambling.. but it's a thought. Ray's little portion on "Relative vs Absolute" makes me wonder about whether that applies to some of these events described in the OT and whether it was really "GOD" who commanded these things to be done or whether it was man just trying to justify his insatious carnal appetite.

Kat:

It is a little hard for me to understand how people can have such a hard time with God ordering the Amalekite nation to be destroyed when they repeatedly attacked (usually the weak in cruelty and cowardice), the Israelites as they came up from Egypt to enter into their Promised Land. Remember the counterattackon the Amalekites led by Joshua, the battle which Israel won because Aaron and Hur helped Moses hold up his rod when his arms grew tired? (From the Jewish Encyclopedia) "Amalek appears elsewhere always as an insignificant robber nation." This shows that God does not deal lightly with wicked people or nation. Yet people continue to show their dismay at God for ordering this.

What about when God sent down fire on the city of Sodom and all the inhabitants died? Or when the earth opened up and swallowed Korah all the men with him and their households? I don't hear people questioning God's actions there.

There have been wars through all of recorded history, this is the age we live in, part of the experience of evil. So when the Scriptures were being written and as with the Israelites we see how God was involved in their lives in every sorts of situations, including wars.

Do we think that God is any less involved in the situations that have happened throughout all of history?  Certainly there are things that we disagree with in our human reasoning, but when I do not understand what God is doing I trust that He knows better than I. Any way just stateing my thoughts on this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Deborah-Leigh:



--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on January 22, 2012, 11:29:29 PM ---
The above are just a few things weighing heavily on my heart.

--- End quote ---

JFK....that..."things weighing heavily on my heart" is just a mega  Spirit of the Lord giving you a great BIG HUG. ;D

Denise  :)

Death is overcome by God. For us too, death is overcome by the Spirit of God. Death shall loose it's sting.  There is no other way.  :)

Arc

DougE6:

I think John from Kentucky brought up some wise historical background and some good commentary on Gods use of "evil" Notice I put evil in quotation marks, because as JFK mentioned, God does not need anyone to defend His actions, because everything He does is done not only out of justice and fairness but our of love.  We, in our extreme nearsightedness, might not see or understand this, until we put on the glasses of faith.  Then we can see clearly.

Now their is a whole lot of accusations floating around cyberspace on how "evil" God is not only because of the stories in the Old Testament of slaughter but what about modern life? DO we really need to go any further than our own century to see the greatest evils that mankind can do to one another? How high has the level of suffering been, for so many, in so many atrocities?

Clearly, maybe, to see that God ordered such killings, the direct connection between the suffering and God seems to up close and personal than when we look at Mao or Stalin or child molestors, who have no such direct connection, as a direct command that we can see;  though they are doing what God has long ago written in the book of their lives what shall be done.

Is God evil for writing the book of their lives in that way, or in ordering the slaughter of "innocents"? Of course not. First and the least reason, is that no one is innocent. But far more than this is the overiding truth that is seen so much more clearly with the eyes of faith that GOD IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN USE EVIL FOR A GOOD PURPOSE. PERIOD.

None of us has perfect knowledge of every interaction and heart except God. None of us has perfect and loving intentions and motives that are absolutely free from any selfishness whatsoever, except God.  And none of us have the ability to overturn any action, including reversing a killing and bringing to life again, except God.

Those attributes of God that I mentioned are WHY we are forbidden to use evil, and for us it is a sin; but for God it is never a sin.

God has much greater plans for mankind than three score and ten, or 2 months in the case of a baby being killed. MUCH GREATER. And this plan that includes suffering and sin and death and all that is written, is the BEST and most LOVING way to make His plans come to fruition. God will never have to give an account in any way to any human being for what He has ordained and caused. And when the final plans are complete, He will be so justified when His masterpiece is revealed that there will be only room for thankfulness, gratefulness, and AWE in what has transpired.

If your heart is troubled by thses things then your faith is low. Your faith in the goodness of God is low.  Your faith in His love is low.  Your understanding of the wickedness of sin is low.  It must hurt to be a sinner!!  Death has sting!  If there was no sting in death, who would fear it?  And, as sinners, we are subject to whatever death God decides we will experience.

But death will not always have a sting. Where is your faith in this scripture?

 and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Where indeed...

onelovedread:
And it is the grace of God ONLY that will save us. But HOW and WHEN? What does it mean to be "under grace?" Answer:

"For the GRACE of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING US [Gk: ‘to train, educate, discipline, punish, chasten, instruct, learn, teach’] that, denying ungodliness and worldly lust, we should live soberly [with a sound mind], righteously, and GODLY, in this present world" (Titus 2:11-12).

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page