> General Discussions
Deserving Death
Dennis Vogel:
Sorry, I do not have time to read every reply. Perhaps you are referring to the old self dying which we all have to kill the old/carnal self and become reborn.
Deborah-Leigh:
1Co 15:26 The last ENEMY that is to be overthrown is Death;
1Co 15:27 for He will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that "All things are in subjection," it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all. 8) ;D
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Gina on January 14, 2012, 09:33:31 AM ---I guess what's confusing to me is how God says, "dying you shall die."
We're in a state of decay / dying from the moment of birth.
We aren't born sinning, we were born dying.
I agree: We sin and we need to be changed and death is the necessary part of that change.
--- End quote ---
Hi Gina,
I think this little portion of ray might help you understand and put into perspective the "We aren't born sinning" statement you made.
--- Quote --- You are also wrong in suggesting that sin did not come into the garden until Eve actually ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT. Not true. Let's read it if you haven't read my "lake of fire" series: "And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD [lust of the flesh--this is SIN], and that it was pleasant to THE EYES [lust of the eyes--this is SIN], and a tree to be desired to MAKE ONE WISE [pride of life--this is SIN]....." (Gen. 3:6). Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN IN THE ENTIRE WORLD B-E-F-O-R-E SHE EVER ATE OF THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT. "For ALL that is in the world [A-L-L the sins of the world come under these three categories], THE lust of the flesh, AND THE lust of the eyes, AND THE pride of life, IS NOT OF THE fATHER, BUT IS OF THE WORLD" (I John 2:15).
"For the creature [Adam and Eve and all their descendants] was MADE [by GOD] subject to VANITY [Margin: 'futility--failure'], not willingly, but by reason of Him [God] Who has subjected the same in HOPE" (Rom. 8:20).
--- End quote ---
SRC= http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3702.msg27912.html#msg27912
Seems like we are certainly born with everything that makes us sinning machines. Born commiting an act of sin? No... but born with the ability to sin? (Weak hearts!) Very much so. Does this equate to being deserving of death? I don't know, I suppose that's something we all need to ask ourselves. Like some have said, none of us asked to be born. I suppose I could see the argument and where the emotional frustration or confusion comes into play.
This is what I found and I thought it might be worthy to add to this conversation. There is more about this, where ray talks about sin and adam's role in all in it etc.. but I can't find that stuff right now.
Anyhooooooooooooooo thats just what I was thinking this morning. Hope it helps some.
God bless,
Alex
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on January 14, 2012, 04:51:40 AM ---As Ray is fond of saying: "We only experience Life. We cannot experience Death."
--- End quote ---
http://bible-truths.com/death.htm
...niether death nor life...can seperate us from the Love of God in Jesus Christ our Lord.
GaryK:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on January 14, 2012, 01:12:19 PM ---Sorry, I do not have time to read every reply. Perhaps you are referring to the old self dying which we all have to kill the old/carnal self and become reborn.
--- End quote ---
That's only part.
If you don't know what I mean by coming face to face, after years of believing deeply that one has a deep love and respect for God only to witness a certainly unexpected growing hatred that harbors inside a mind against God in a full........or a proportional sense even, the dis-proportionate swelling of a pride and then, hopefully, the dying off....... of that prideful selfishness....
.....then you can't identify.
Must be my own personality flaw.
Perhaps Ray is incorrect in that teaching of discovering a hate for God, or perhaps I didn't understand his point.
I'll put wager that I didn't understand what Ray was talking about.
Peace, out.
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