> General Discussions
Deserving Death
Gina:
I guess what's confusing to me is how God says, "dying you shall die."
We're in a state of decay / dying from the moment of birth.
We aren't born sinning, we were born dying.
I agree: We sin and we need to be changed and death is the necessary part of that change.
Samson:
--- Quote from: Gina on January 14, 2012, 09:20:10 AM ---Thanks, Samson! That's starting to make sense. It's like, "You do this, this will be the outcome, this is what you get, it leads to this [death, in this particular instance] ."
(I'm sorry, but please, don't confuse me with your wife, Samson. lol. I don't know how you guys (dougE6) are reading emotion into my question. I'm not angry. I'm asking a question. There's no anger or "emotion" behind it.)
--- End quote ---
Now that's weird, not you Gina, you just edited your Post and I just lost mine, I tried to respond to your Post and it disappeared and then I read your response & the subsequent response, boy, I wondered if God pulled the Trigger. Just wanted you to know that no offense meant on My part, was just adding a little levity to my attempt to discuss WORTHY OR DESERVING, because on an intellectual Scripturally supported Level, I understand all of this, but on a Human Level with a Finite, exceedingly weak heart I sometimes can't come to terms with why We deserve anything like suffering, an experience of Evil to the horrifying degree We witness, if not personally, through the experience of others and even Dying, including the process from day one, because as I stated, none of Us asked to be Born or had any choice in this matter or the Parents We inherited, Our Genetic Makeup or the Environment We grew up in. All of this is puzzling. at times, but God's experience & knowledge far exceeds mine, so leaving it in His hands and trying to make the best choices We can, Praying incessantly for His direction to help Us make good choices, caring about the choices We make, but not worrying about any of it. There's a big difference between Caring and Worrying about the choices We make.
Although, I believe your question has merit, based on the meaning of Axios, Worthy or Deserving could mean: " Just the Outcome or justification resulting from an individuals course as shown from Romans. 1:26-32, they reaped what they sowed as a consequence of practicing Sin with no evidence of remorse or even caring.
Carry On, Samson.
Deborah-Leigh:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on January 14, 2012, 04:51:40 AM ---
...Ray is fond of saying: "We only experience Life. We cannot experience Death."
We cannot truly appreciate life without death.
--- End quote ---
Maybe we CAN appreciate life more, WITHOUT death! Maybe thats not only the lesson but the destination ~ ;D
Excellent quote from Ray. Thanks for that Dennis. I am not trying to rock the boat. Your thoughts inspire...Thank you! 8)
Gina:
Hi, Samson
That makes way more sense -- reaping what we sow. We definitely sow to the flesh and death is the outcome.
Thank you for your kind reply. I appreciate that you can see where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand. And you helped me immensely.
(I'm sorry for editing my post. I do that a lot. I will eventually learn to use the "preview" feature. lol Thanks for your patience.)
GaryK:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on January 14, 2012, 04:51:40 AM ---quote]
As Ray is fond of saying: "We only experience Life. We cannot experience Death."
Steve Jobs: 'Death is life's best invention' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15197932
There are lessons we can only learn by experience. We cannot truly appreciate life without death.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---I'm struggling with the words "deserving death" I've seen throughout the bible. .
See, I can understand that "dying we shall (must) die." But having to die because God must refashion us is not quite as offensive in light of the fact that God made us weak.
--- End quote ---
Gina, you’re talking only of the physical death.
What about dying in another sense of the word? Dennis stated of Ray that we cannot experience ‘death’. Physically, yes I agree. But we do experience ‘death’ while on this earth, or at least, some do. We die in our carnal desires or, at least we hope we do, as we move along the grace-line toward becoming Christ-like. That’s dying. And those desires deserve death.
And too I think we can experience, perhaps, another kind of death before the physical. By that I mean Ray states in his papers that we can learn to hate God. There’s a lot to that, more than can be described in a paragraph this…learning to hate God….but in it’s own kind it’s a spiritual death, of sorts, and it’s painful, agonizing, and dis-orienting….internally…spiritually. Pride plays there more than one can know, unless, one experiences that sense of death. But I think it’s also part of seeing and learning how beastly the beast inside us all is really is, and the death of that beast is spiritually agonizing. Didn’t the prodigal son experience this spiritual loss? What about ‘losing our first love’? Isn’t that dying also, in the spiritual sense?
I could be way off.
I suppose I could have/should have started another thread on a ‘spiritual death’ and not disrupt your train of thought on the physical------(moderators, the delete button is a hand-breadth away.........feel free).
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