Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together.

[Truth96130]

I am a Christen. I pray every day, worship on the piano, study the bible and have a wonderful relationship with my heavenly father. I am a Christen Universalist. There are no Christian Universalist churches near me so I do not go to church. However I have seen some people say we are commanded to go to church and they use this verse Hebrews 10/25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together....
If this means we are under a command from God to meet with other people that believe the way we do then that brings up a lot of contradictions.
What if there is no one you know that is a christen Universalist?
If you meet in a church but you do not meet in the church down the road then you are forsaking the church down the road and you are breaking the command.
If every church is to far away to travel to each Sunday then your breaking the command. If you get sick and can not go to church then you are breaking the command. If you are a kid and your parents decide not to take you to church then the kids would be breaking the Command. If the power gos out and you get snowed in and can not go to church then you are breaking the command. You see if this verse means we are under a command from God to attend church then we run into some bad contradictions. Jesus did not attend church. If not going to church was a sin then Jesus sinned. Paul did not go to church (as far as I know) when he was in prison.
The only logical conclusions I can come to is that we are not under a commandment by God to go to church. Otherwise God maid a commandment that Jesus did not keep which would make Jesus a sinner. However Jesus was a perfect man. So if you can be perfect and not go to church then church is not necessary for perfection. Do any of you know of any material that Ray has on this subject? I believe this verse is simply stating that if we have a group of friends that are christens like us and we begin to meet together in some way that it is wise to continue to meet together and not a grudging obligation, otherwise we run into too many contradictions. Peace.

[Deborah-Leigh]

This should fix that Truth96130 

NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLING OF OURSELVES TOGETHER

In Hebrews 10:25 were are admonished as follows:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching."

That this is speaking of believers congregating together to worship and study God's Word, there can be no doubt. However, there is a much deeper meaning to this "assembling" that few have ever seen. I never saw it myself until I read a paper by J. Preston Eby, entitled: "FORSAKE NOT THE ASSEMBLING."

I will quote an excerpt or two from his paper:

"The Greek word for 'assembling' is EPISUNAGOGE. The word, literally, is a verb meaning to synagogue. It is a compound of the Greek prefix EPI with the word SUNAGOGE from which we get our transliterated English word Synagogue. EPI means super – imposition – that which is above, higher than, highest, upon. SUNAGOGE means a meeting, assembly, or gathering. Putting these two words together, EPI-SUNAGOGE means THE ABOVE SYNAGOGUE, THE HIGHER MEETING, THE HIGHEST ASSEMBLY, THE HIGHER-THAN-ALL-GATHERINGS!

It bespeaks of something far greater than merely collecting so many breathing bodies together in one place.

It is a meeting in a higher realm, on a higher plane, in the high places of the Spirit, and in the heights of Truth. It is a gathering together in a dimension above. It indicates an assembling IN THE SPIRIT..."

(All Caps belong to Mr. Eby).

This Greek word episunagoge is used only one other time in Scripture, and that is in II Thes. 2:1:

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together [Gk: episunagoge] unto Him."

In Hebrews 10 we are admonished to "assemble" in an high meeting, a meeting in the SPIRIT! In II Thes. 2 this meeting in the Spirit will become a literal meeting with our Lord.

And so, back to our question once more: Which denomination should we join? Where should we go to Church? Where should we "forsake not the assembling of ourselves together?" In a physical building of some physical denomination? No. WE are to episunagoge (assemble) on a higher plane, in a higher realm, in a spiritual assembly, IN THE SPIRIT!

This is not something new. This is exactly what Jesus Christ taught regarding where and how we are to (go to church) worship God.

"The woman said unto Him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye [all the Jews] say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus said unto her, Woman, believe Me, the hour comes, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour comes, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers shall worship the Father in SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH: for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is Spirit: and they that worship Him MUST worship in SPIRIT AND TRUTH" (John 4:19:24).

We have got to get out of the depths of Satan if we are to worship God in Spirit and Truth. The Church is filled with the depths of Satan. That is not the place to go to worship God in spirit and truth. Did Jesus go to the synagogues to worship His God?

"And when He [Jesus] had sent the multitudes away, He went up into a mountain apart [Gk: 'by Himself'] to pray: and when the evening was come, He was there alone" (Matt. 14:23).

Amazing, isn't it. Jesus "assembled [Gk: episunagoge]" with His Father BY HIMSELF, ALONE. We can do the same. Not just on Sunday morning or Wednesday evening, with a crowd, in a building, but on every day of the week, and we can do it while we are ALONE.

How often church buildings and temples are referred to as "The House of God." This is nonsense. God does NOT dwell in houses, buildings, churches, or temples made with hands.

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwells NOT in temples made with hands."

And

"Howbeit the Most High dwells NOT in temples made with hands" (Acts 17:24 & 7:48).

How often Jerusalem is called, "The Holy City." People want to visit Jerusalem because they think it is HOLY GROUND. There is nothing holy about it. Constantly Satan's ministers refer to Jerusalem as the Holy City, and how we should pray for "the peace of Jerusalem." Let me assure you that all of those prayers are going to go unanswered because, "...for the son of the bondwoman [Jerusalem that now is--under bondage] shall not be heir with the son of the free woman [Jerusalem which is above and free]" (Gal. 4:30b).

THE SEAT / THRONE AND DWELLING PLACE OF SATAN LOCATED http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

[Deborah-Leigh]

Each time I read the BTF or speak to or with or write into the Forum, or to and with others who believe,  I am assembling with Spirit and with Truth. That happens every day, not just once a week...

Arc

[Heidi]

Each time I read the BTF or speak to or with or write into the Forum, or to and with others who believe,  I am assembling with Spirit and with Truth. That happens every day, not just once a week...

Arc

Thanks Arc....that is so true 

[Truth96130]

So what is the correct response to people that say you must assemble together because the bible says do not forsake the assembly of your selves together?
Are these words of Paul not for us?

[arion]

Did you read the excerpt from Ray's paper in this thread?  Of course Paul's words for for us.  We assemble together in Spirit every time we discuss these higher truths from God's word.  I don't think you have to say anything to anyone else.  They won't 'get it' unless God opens their eyes.  We read the scriptures with carnal eyes of flesh and think Paul is saying that we have to gather in a building on a street corner.  That isn't what Paul is saying.  There is a spiritual meaning to this command which is far higher than the words on the printed page taken literally.

[Truth96130]

Thank you. 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Truth96130 ~ You ask what is the "correct response."

One way to reply is  : Assemble where you are going to assemble, believe what you are going to believe. You're going to anyway!

To the question aren't these words of Paul for us, you might reply with this question :

Don't birds of a feather flock together?

Everyone is going to do as they are going to do, think as they are going to think and be as they are going to be! 

Being, and believing as you are going to be and believe, and think, as you are going to think, can be scary. You need approval and support and agreement so this fear doesn't leave room for others to be, believe and think as they are going to believe and be and think.

When fear rules, agreement becomes overrated and freedom under estimated ~ Our freedom is in Christ not in congregational agreements and approvals of man made doctrines.


You are right to keep asking. Questions draw answers and questions dissolve eventually as the Truth and Peace of acceptance without struggle and understanding without debate, takes over.

Maybe something makes sense out of what I have spoken to you and if not...well...that's okay too. Be blessed!

You're always welcome Heidi ~

[Revilonivek]

Thank you Arc! I needed to read that to be reminded. I have this friend who is struggling with the fear. she has this "what ifs" fear. She's afraid for herself and her kids and was raised Pentecostal. I have tried to help free her from the bonds that religion has on her. She wants back in church again. third time in almost 2 years. she wants to be free but she says its on he back of her mind and she wants what's best for her and her kids. I'm just frustrated but I feel I can let her go. she's going to believe or think the way she wants to. She knows what it takes to be free and she has to believe it 100 percent to be truly free. I did what I could. I'm just sad in a way because I feel like I'm losing a friend of like mind. but that's okay. I would rather be truly free and that is my goal.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Being free from fear is a wonderful goal Revilonivek. Jesus Christ is free of fear and of death....How cool is that! 

I know it is a sad feeling to "let go" and let God, of a "friend" that has had some wonderful sharing moments with you, yet, personaly, I have found that God never leaves a vacuum....The Universe is expanding all the time and there is so much to enjoy and see and love and let go of, in order to fly....The eagle leaving the ledge for the first time, returns occasionally, yet is ever drawn to the wind underneath his wings....keep flying Revilonivek.... you're doing great. Love can not ever be lost!

Lovely pic of your little boy btw. 

[deblynn]

Thank-you, notably Arcturus, for your insight on this subject.  This is an oft-used/misquoted scripture by many who really believe they are on the right path, and you/we are not. 
For years, I struggled with questions while in the organized church system, and if God can lead me and guide me into all truth, then I know He will continue to bring others out of bondage.  I suppose it's just a matter of taking time out of the element(or equation). Because it is a process, or journey that doesn't come to fruition overnight.  It can take years to remove the layers of brainwashing. (Don't be discouraged over your friend, Revilonivek. Human nature doesn't like to admit to being wrong, or brainwashed to begin with).
Many times, I have experienced a spiritual intimacy with the Lord that I never could while in the system.  I feel no guilt about not assembling with the local "church folk".  Some of them pity me, thinking I am misguided, anyway.  I just shake my head, because I know what I know, and the "guilt trip" is of no effect on me.
Thank you, BTF, for being here. 

[Gina]

This is a great topic!  I was once drawn back into the church system by someone who used that "do not forsake the assembling of yourselves...." verse on me when I told her I didn't attend church.  But it was all good.  It actually led me here -- it was all orchestrated specifically for me by God.  God's the best.

That was great response, Arc.  The most comforting, reassuring part of that excerpt, I personally believe, is this:

"Amazing, isn't it. Jesus "assembled [Gk: episunagoge]" with His Father BY HIMSELF, ALONE. We can do the same. Not just on Sunday morning or Wednesday evening, with a crowd, in a building, but on every day of the week, and we can do it while we are ALONE."

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

[Deborah-Leigh]

Great wisdom deblynn

Ray often reminds us that the world will not change. Our mind about the world needs change, instead of us spending all our effort trying to change the world! LOL 

That's a great word to look at Gina....Alone...    Like when you really want to pay undivided attention to a loved one, you close the door to the world in order to be alone, in private, undisturbed and intimately in communion, as was the example of Jesus, who prayed alone.

Arc

[Samson]

I am a Christen. I pray every day, worship on the piano, study the bible and have a wonderful relationship with my heavenly father. I am a Christen Universalist. There are no Christian Universalist churches near me so I do not go to church. However I have seen some people say we are commanded to go to church and they use this verse Hebrews 10/25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together....
If this means we are under a command from God to meet with other people that believe the way we do then that brings up a lot of contradictions.
What if there is no one you know that is a christen Universalist?
If you meet in a church but you do not meet in the church down the road then you are forsaking the church down the road and you are breaking the command.
If every church is to far away to travel to each Sunday then your breaking the command. If you get sick and can not go to church then you are breaking the command. If you are a kid and your parents decide not to take you to church then the kids would be breaking the Command. If the power gos out and you get snowed in and can not go to church then you are breaking the command. You see if this verse means we are under a command from God to attend church then we run into some bad contradictions. Jesus did not attend church. If not going to church was a sin then Jesus sinned. Paul did not go to church (as far as I know) when he was in prison.
The only logical conclusions I can come to is that we are not under a commandment by God to go to church. Otherwise God maid a commandment that Jesus did not keep which would make Jesus a sinner. However Jesus was a perfect man. So if you can be perfect and not go to church then church is not necessary for perfection. Do any of you know of any material that Ray has on this subject? I believe this verse is simply stating that if we have a group of friends that are christens like us and we begin to meet together in some way that it is wise to continue to meet together and not a grudging obligation, otherwise we run into too many contradictions. Peace.

Hi Truth,

I remember this Topic Being discussed in the past, Deborah Posted probably the best response regarding Hebrews. 10:23-25 breaking down the Greek Compound "Episunogoge" (Assembling, Gathering) quoting that excerpt from J Preston Eby By Ray. That passage of Scripture was a regularly used passage that got drummed into My skull from My former JW days. Of course they were primarily justifying Congregational or Church gatherings, putting an emphasis on "Inciting one another to Love & Fine works."

During those former times, I often wondered about the Scripture where Jesus says: " Where Two or Three are gathered in My Name, My spirit is in their midst," figuring that this didn't require some large building consisting of Believers. Besides, in the First Century, they met in private homes for fellowship, no Man Made Church Buildings for Assembling back then. It wasn't until the Second Century that Ignatius of Antioch & Cyprian of Carthage began to develop a formal Church Type setting that eventually led to the expensive Tombs(Church Buildings) We see Today, appealing to the Carnal Eyes, the desire of eyes like Eve had, looking at the physically appealing Church Buildings like the physically appealing Forbidden Fruit that had much attraction.

Besides, when you belong to a Church Fellowship with many different Denominations to choose from, You don't get to choose the individual fellowship, because they do the choosing for you and decide who to Fellowship with. Not trying to sound Elitist here, because that's not intended, but now I get to choose Who I want to Spiritually Fellowship with, either at BT or elsewhere and that's not Free Will, but there are many causes that led to this Choice and Mental Disposition.

As mentioned By Deborah & Others, We don't want our fellowship & worship being motivated by FEAR, Fear Acts as a restraint and has nothing to do with the motivation through Love.

Although this Topic is a rehash, Iron sharpens Iron and it's one that Our Guests at bible Truths probably could review, it's probably a concern of theirs,  .

Samson awake at 6:00 AM, what for, slept hard, but not long.

[Revilonivek]

Thank you Arturus! The eagle analogy were excellent!  IT even helped open my mind to more answers.

What's even more interesting,  after reading your eagle analogy, God wasn't even finished with the answer. He went even further, the same night, He led me to more answers...the scriptures about how we are to treat the least of his people because it is exactly what we are doing to Jesus. I didn't really understand fully who the least of his people were. In the scriptures, I can see that people see it as a physical application where we are to help the needy, the sick, the poor but the conversation between them and God at Judgement day. They swore they were helping the needy, the sick,  and the poor... The thing is.. HE wasn't talking about the physical application, HE was talking about a spiritual application. We are to feed them, give them drink, visit them in prison, heal the sick with the same truth Jesus shared with us. We are to do it to them too. The people who live in a carnal mindset are the ones in prison and we are to help them by visiting them, giving them drink and food. The same way Jesus helped us. He fed us, gave us water, he visited us in prison and had alot of patience. It is how he did it.. we are to do the same for them. It confirmed my nagging feeling.. I just care about my friend but I need to remind myself, ALL in due time. like Jesus was with us. HE knows our hearts.. we don't change overnight. It takes alot of patience and love.

No more trying to prove a point. They have been abused by the religion system that robbed them. We'll just offer water, drink and visitations and hope it will help heal the scars that the religion system has infected. We all need healing, right?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Revilonivek

It is so SWEET of you to so generously share with us, what Papa is showing to you of the depths of His Kingdom.

I was in a Hospital today. The doctor asked me how old I was. I returned the question to him and asked how old he was. He said, "very young". He was so humble and modest, not taking any credit for his qualifications.

The nursing sister confided that she had been out trumped, by another nurse who took her credits to gain advantage and promotion. She was telling me she was better now, about it and agreed that God sees what she does and her reward is with Him not people!

Doctor and the Nurse's Faith made visible gave MY soul a great gift of being humbled before the presence of  the beauty that is Christ living and speaking words of comfort to the comfortless and words of consolation to the lowly.

I thought of Alex as I saw the young interns at the coffee shop!

Revilonivek, the world is full of people who can hear the comfort....Isa 40:1  Comfort, O comfort my people, says your God.

You are so right to see and receive what Papa tells you, that it is not the physical outward appearances that draws the need, but the inward condition of souls that is our soul needing to feel the comfort of Christ ministering! Isa 52:7  How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of him who brings good tidings, making peace heard; who brings good news, making salvation heard; who says to Zion, Your God reigns!

It is beautiful, blessed and magnificent that Papa is speaking with you and you are hearing! This can inspire and extend hope to others, reading and thinking about how Papa is pouring out His Spirit because as you say, we all need healing, and that's right!

Arc

[mavis92379]

Who is Papa ?

[Deborah-Leigh]

Abba, Father, Daddy....that is the Father of who Jesus Christ refered as His Father in Heaven...same Papa to me, that's who...

[mavis92379]

I figured. I just wasnt sure. I never heard someone refer to the Father like that before. Sometimes we loose sight of the term Father and stating it like that really was reassuring to how much of a Father God really is. I couldnt help to chuckle though of thinking about what it would be like in the setting of Acts chapter 15 if everyone present were all addresssing the Father as Papa. Sorry to sway off topic this was just enlightening and made me smile.

[Dave in Tenn]

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are, gathered in My name, there am I in the midst of them."


Maybe "two or three gathered" is not the "minimum quorum" for fellowship, but the ideal.  Just thinking out loud.