> Off Topic Discussions
''just another tread about money''
Gina:
--- Quote ---Gina, we live in America. There's no possible way to ever miss out on the super special deal when the sale never ends and another one will be out shortly!
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haha!! Right! But you wouldn't know it by the way people rush in to buy crap. Not judging! Been there, done that.
acomplishedartis:
Hi Samson.
Thanks for your contribution.
I can see how the word ''epithumia (a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after).'' can get tricky. It reminds me how the word the word that is translated 'ambition' on 1Th 4:11 which is ''Philotimeomai (Strong's Number:5389 1.to be fond of honour, to be actuated by love of honour, from a love of honour to strive to bring something to pass, to be ambitious, to strive earnestly, make it one's aim.)''
1Th 4:11
and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,
In both ''epithumia'' and ''Philotimeomai'' the words 'desire' something and 'craving' for something are there. Also we the ambition many times is used with negative connotations. However not on this verse. Actually that verse fits perfect on this tread and that is what we most be logging for while living physically.
Regarding the part on Ray's paper you where referring too, Here it is:
There was ONE commandment, however, that was of a spiritual nature. It had to do with the desires and inclination of the heart. It was the 10th commandment:
"Neither shall you desire [covet] your neighbor’s wife… house… field… manservant… maidservant… ox… a@@… or any thing that is your neighbor’s" (Deut. 5:7-21).
However, was anyone ever stoned in ancient Israel for coveting any thing that belonged to his neighbor? No. Never. One could "covet" anything he wanted all day long, just so long as he didn't break any of the other nine commandments!
One could "covet" his neighbor’s wife, just as long as he didn’t commit adultery with her—for that he would be stoned to death.
One could "covet" his neighbor’s ox, just so long as he didn’t steal it—for that he would be stoned to death.
Oh "coveting" was a sin all right, but since it cannot be detected by man unless it eventuates into stealing or the like, no penalty was enforced on such an one. However, to Paul, it was this commandment that proved to him that his heart was not right with God even though he performed all the visible and outward duties of the law:
"…for I had not known [Gk: ‘would not have known’] lust, except the law had said, "Thou shalt not covet" (Rom. 7:7).
So lusting and coveting that which is not legal, is a sin, but it carried no penalty in Ancient Israel. But before a man ever steals, or ever commits adultery with another man’s wife, he first covets, and that is a sin and the precursor to additional sins. But is it man's will that does the coveting? Can man's will, will NOT to covet? Is man's "will" the problem? No, no, it is NOT. (http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html)
'' But godliness with contentment is great gain. (1Ti 6:6) ''
Good you bring that one up. Contentment might be the safer final solution for the habitual problem of greed!
(The only bad thing about talking about this things is that it is way more easy to talk about it than actually do it)
sincerely
Moises
acomplishedartis:
--- Quote from: Gina on February 02, 2012, 09:22:53 AM --- truthfully discussing these things would be so much more enjoyable than actually owning these things!
Yes, I judge him NOT! My heart goes out to people like that.
Gina
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Be able to discus this things is awesome, yet on a daily base I usually just carry them on with my self, because people usually get offended and it is so much again so many assuptions. Neither do I judge them.
:)
acomplishedartis:
--- Quote from: Stacey on February 02, 2012, 09:26:44 AM ---Frugality. On personal and public levels leads to contentment on many levels.
Paul was definitely a frugal person and one of our greatest examples.
Who is rich and who is poor and by whose or what measuring stick is the measurement taken?
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Somebody once said:
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction."
''by whose or what measuring stick is the measurement taken?'' I guess to make our personal meassure must be responsibility of us and not from society at large (here, I am talking to the few whom are trying to live a piety live only).
--- Quote from: Stacey on February 02, 2012, 09:26:44 AM ---By the worlds standard I would be considered in the extreme lower level of the middle class. Its a good thing I refuse to let the world decide for me where I fit in. God is our provider and we are surely blessed and no matter what condition we find our selves in there are always blessings to be counted to our benefit that far out way any monetary value and by default make each of us rich beyond measure.
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Yes, God is our provider!
''By the worlds standard I would be considered in the extreme lower level of the middle class.''
According with scary world statistics, if you have clean water, a shelter, and nutritive food daily, you are not so on the extreme lower level of middle class. Maybe according to your city or country standard, yes. But yeah I agree, many deceptive standarts are very relative.
--- Quote from: Stacey on February 02, 2012, 09:26:44 AM ---Moises you said you've been on a lot of different levels even just to see what they were like. Be careful friend. One fella comes to mind considering this. He's the Fat to Fit dude. Google him for more info if you want to. He wanted to see what it was like to be fat so he deliberately ate to get fat. He was perfectly fit when he started and needed to know why fat people struggle so much to shed the pounds. Now that he reached the goal of getting fat he is trying to shed the pounds. :) The pounds ain't coming off very easy.
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Stacey, those occasions happened a couple years ago, God took care of me and I would not put my self there anymore, however, thanks for your concern. My way of thought was nothing like 'let's do somethink stupid just to know what is like' it was like a personal test to overcome a personal fear and be able to understand a little better the ones whom are home-less (now I know better that we I can be able to understand and have piety of others by just thinking about it). About the ugly example I was compared with; getting fat just for the heck of it is a shame, (however, no one have a free-will.)
thanks for adding to the tread
sincerely
Moises
Fester:
--- Quote from: Moises on February 01, 2012, 01:32:14 AM ---As an introductory note: I do believe that I can be able to back up all this information, it will be just a resume of things that have been going on through my ''young'' mind.
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I wish you did back it up.
--- Quote from: Moises ---Who knows, it might finish giving encorage to somebody.
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Probably won’t finish giving encouragement but possibly will lend some.
--- Quote from: Moises ---First I want to put down a couple unfair and unworthy questions that you might have heard around.
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Okay so how are these questions which you are about to ‘put down’ ‘unfair and unworthy’? Well, let’s read on and see.
--- Quote from: Moises --- Because I think that we should not participate on this type of hypothetical and vane reasoning's:
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You ‘think that we should not participate’ in this type of activity. Okay now we have three items to watch for. You will ‘put down’ and show these questions are ‘unfair and unworthy’ and that ‘we should not participate on this type of hypothetical and vane reasoning’s’.
--- Quote from: Moises --- ''If you had the power and money how would you run and fix the world, how would you address the problem of... this... and that...? ''
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Hypothetical questions can be fun; plus gets one’s grey matter working; invokes thought and conversation, controversy and learning and can be quite humbling
--- Quote from: Moises ---The truth is that a lot of money and worldly power will never bring us more chances for a more piety, peaceful and quiet life. There is no way our limited mind can have a better plan than Gods, He is the Creator and His masterpiece is perfect and it is still in process. And we are not to pretend to be gods.
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Obviously our limited minds will never have a plan better than God’s. But now you side step the issue and go on about gaining piety, a peaceful and quiet life.
But you really did not ‘put down’ and show that this question is ‘unfair and unworthy’ and that ‘we should not participate on this type of hypothetical and vane reasoning’s’. Your's are the kind of statements politicians give.
--- Quote from: Moises ---Also I have heard before:
''If everyone would think and do as you, now, imagine how the world would become? I don't like neither how things are now but this is how things and money work around here, so you better comply...''
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If everyone thought the same as anyone in the world it would still be a messed up place (sin). Yes there is a way ‘things’ and ‘money’ in the world work, and to live we must ‘comply’ and play the game. Well, unless you want to be a broke, hungry, homeless, rebel or go live in the woods like Grizzly Adams.
--- Quote from: Moises ---However, on this life nobody had ever think exactly like me and nobody never will, so that argument should never apply.
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True not everyone thinks like you or ever will so how does that make the thought provoking hypothetical question invalid? Because the argument will never apply? So we must remember any question about something which will never happen is not a valid question. Okay I got the idea but am still not sure why not to ask.
--- Quote from: Moises --- Also since God is in control and not any human freewill, all the wrong and evil we see today doesn't match with how things with humans will always work. Actually this is how all things really work: God being the potter and humans being the clay, there you have a real absolute.
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Yes God is the Potter and we are the clay is a real absolute. You say, ‘all the wrong and evil we see today doesn't match with how things with humans will always work’. I think it matches 100% as with how things with humans work and always will work as we are vessels of sin. Evil totally matches sinful human (flesh) behavior.
--- Quote from: Moises ---We don't need more money to start trying to live a piety live, it is more important to build our character than to accomplish material dreams (God's is giving an experience of evil to humanity to humble him, if He wanted to give everybody and experience of abundance and total bliss right now, many things would be different.)
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You are correct but the comment is irrelevant to your original stated objectives.
--- Quote from: Moises ---Now, before keep on talking about money, again, what is money?Money was only a medium of exchange for the increasingly complex transactions, it is a just a peace of paper that people in general give certain value to it, money is like little cage vouchers, money is a mental idea and we have been trained to respect it and even praise it.
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A simplistic but true enough view.
Fester
Well I think you totally failed to ‘put down’ and show that these questions are ‘unfair and unworthy’ and that ‘we should not participate on this type of hypothetical and vane reasoning’s’.
Your continued posts are full of holes as well.
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