> General Discussions
Jesus: "the CREATED of the Father"
Dave in Tenn:
I urge everyone to listen to what Ray had to say in ( (actually) both of the links Dennis provided--particularly the second one.
Sounds like we are about wrapped up here, , though I'm sure this won't be the last such thread.
Me? I just don't think there IS a ''proof-text" that sums all up. NO Scripture is its own interpretation. There is a lot to compare, spiritual with spiritual.
Joel:
The concept or teaching that God is the Father, was not a new teaching, and that he has sons was not either. That there are many sons (gods) is also a Old Testament teaching that Jesus reminded his enemies of. Who did the Jews think Adam's Father was?
The Jews had the scriptures read, and taught unto them regularly in the Temple.
Only those that were blinded then as well as now, don't get the Truth as it is.
The Word (Jesus) is just as much God, as the Spirit Father is God, only the words (WORD) are never GREATER, (equal to but not greater) than the one that inspired the words.
Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
Isaiah 64:8 But now , O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Joel
santgem:
Hi kAT,
Greetings!
--- Quote ---I am having a little bit of a hard time following what you are saying... When the Father brought forth the Son/Word in the beginning, they were not separated into 2 Gods, because I believe the Father brought the Son forth as an extended part of Himself. The Father is not a being, so He made/created a part of Himself to be a Being just for this creation. But that part is not disconnected from the Father, He is in His bosom and the Father has complete control over the Son.
--- End quote ---
You said that “The Father is not a being, so He made/created a part of Himself to be a Being just for this creation”.
Be it known Kat when that time God brought forth YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah he is not a Being, we did not know how God formed YHWH but we know that YHWH brought forth by God.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Do not be confused on the above verse because when all things are brought forth through Jesus he is not yet in his human form, he is still YHWH.
How the YHWH become flesh?
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
Phl 2:6-7 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Psa 22:10 I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.
Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?
Now Jesus was born and had a flesh, and the moment he was born he had a God. In his flesh he had a God because the Lord is the God of all flesh.
Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. Psalm 90:2
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. Col 2:9
Abednego:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 21, 2014, 06:15:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on August 21, 2014, 01:32:24 PM ---
John, I know full well that Christ is fully 100% God "the fullness of the Godhead"... in saying He is part of the Father I am not saying He is only some degree of God, but that He is indeed connect and not separate from the Father.
But show me a Scripture that saying He is 'everything' that the Father is, that's all I need so I understand and agree.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
O.K. Let's look at the 1st Scripture I quoted, Hebrews 1:3.
The King James and the NKJV says Jesus is the express image of God. The NASB says He is the exact representation of God.
Does anyone have a Scripture that contradicts Hebrews 1:3? That says Jesus is not the exact representation of the Father?
Well, it is obvious our little group are not of one mind on this matter. But look at the interest it engenders. God is bringing this issue to the fore. I wonder why? Why was Ray interested in this matter near the end of his life?
--- End quote ---
Ok, sign me up on the confused list. I understand the "exact representation" because Jesus said He only says what the Father says, and only does what He sees Him do". (Paraphrasing... too early and I'm too tired (lazy) to look it up but you know the scripture I mean.
But exact representation? That would contradict Jesus saying the Father is greater. That's not exact.
BRB the popcorn's almost ready.
Dennis Vogel:
Go here and skip forward to 28 minutes: http://bible-truths.com/audio/9-2-06MobileConf.5.mp3 and pay attention.
Ray liked to say if something is true the more you study it the more it becomes true. The little I've skimmed this thread I see a lot of conjecture. In this audio Ray piles scripture on scripture. I don't hear any conjecture.
Also, in this audio Ray calls God a "being." My definition of a being is an entity that lives. A being does not need to human. Getting caught up in semantics is foolish when you know that no one is calling God the Father a human being.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version