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Hell and Heaven not upon death, but after the judgment

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levycarneiro:
Hello brothers,

I've been reading and being very blessed by God through Ray's life and teachings.

I have a question... Ray always talks about how all men just die, and don't go either to Heaven or Hell at the moment of death. All will be judged (either now or later) and purified and saved eventually. Ok. How about the (wrong) teaching that there are both Heaven and Hell and that people when die, they die, but they will go either go to Heaven or Hell right after the Judgement at the Day of the Lord? I'm certain there's some contradiction in this teaching, because by other many verses in the Scriptures we know there's no Hell, but how to I logically present this to a brother in Christ, loved one, etc?

Thanks
God bless!

Levy
Brazil

Rene:

--- Quote from: levycarneiro on March 17, 2012, 06:42:58 AM ---
I'm certain there's some contradiction in this teaching, because by other many verses in the Scriptures we know there's no Hell, but how to I logically present this to a brother in Christ, loved one, etc?


--- End quote ---

Hi Levy, and welcome to the forum. :)

Before you attempt to logically present any bible truths to someone else, I would suggest you continue to study and come to a deeper understanding of these truths yourself.  There is a lot of material on the Bible-Truths website and as God increases your knowledge and understanding, you will become more confident and able to respond to those who question your beliefs.  In addition, you will come to understand that no matter how logically you present these truths to someone,unless God opens up their understanding, they will not believe or receive it. 

Be patient and continue to study and meditate on the things you are learning.  Also, feel free to join in on the discussions here on the forum. :)

René     

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: Rene on March 17, 2012, 08:53:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: levycarneiro on March 17, 2012, 06:42:58 AM ---
I'm certain there's some contradiction in this teaching, because by other many verses in the Scriptures we know there's no Hell, but how to I logically present this to a brother in Christ, loved one, etc?


--- End quote ---

Hi Levy, and welcome to the forum. :)

Before you attempt to logically present any bible truths to someone else, I would suggest you continue to study and come to a deeper understanding of these truths yourself.  There is a lot of material on the Bible-Truths website and as God increases your knowledge and understanding, you will become more confident and able to respond to those who question your beliefs.  In addition, you will come to understand that no matter how logically you present these truths to someone,unless God opens up their understanding, they will not believe or receive it. 

Be patient and continue to study and meditate on the things you are learning.  Also, feel free to join in on the discussions here on the forum. :)

René   

--- End quote ---

Amen Rene!

cjwood:
welcome to the forum levy brazil.  you have joined a much different forum than any other.  stick around long enough (after studying the Truths which God the Father has confirmed through Scripture, and reflected through the b-t website and forum), and you will understand what i mean.   8)

with regards to your question in particular, about how to logically present a/any contradiction to a brother in Christ (or anyone) there is much written about this in the lake of fire series, and throughout most of ray's teachings.  if you have not read the lof series, or read through the many papers written, and emails to ray, you will miss out on so very, very much.  many Truths have been revealed in Spirit through ray, which he has shared through his writings, and his answers to questions.  as rené has said, ..."unless God opens up their understanding, they will not believe or receive it."

...teaching that there are both Heaven and Hell and that people when die, they die, but they will go either to Heaven or Hell right after the Judgement at the Day of the Lord?

if i am understanding your words shown above levy, you are saying this brother in Christ believes that when you die you are indeed dead and go no where (but to gravedom), BUT, right after judgement on the Day of the Lord, they (immediately) go to either heaven or hell.  if i have it wrong, please let me know.  if i am understanding your words correctly, this teaching sounds like he/they are still trying so hard to hold onto the WRONG teaching that there is a literal heaven and hell, and their WRONG understanding of what judgement is all about.  after ALL judgements are complete, ALL will have entered into God's Kingdom (the elect, after going through their judgements on earth, upon their resurrection, "inherit" the Kingdom of God).  no one enters into the Kingdom of Heaven, EXCEPT through Christ.  no one.  ALL have to go through the True and Spiritual Lake of Fire, whether in this age or the next. 

perhaps you could give your brother in Christ the b-t website address.


claudia 



 

levycarneiro:
Hello Rene and Claudia, thanks for your help...

Rene, regarding trying to convince someone, for sure, I agree with what you say: only God can open our understanding. But I need to know and understand these truths completely to be prepared in case someone asks the reason of my faith. I have read probably 80% of the LOF series, and it's been a joy DAILY to learn so much every single day. God is awesome... I now understand what the "Good News" are really about :D

Claudia, you got it. I was wondering "what's the great contradiction with going to Hell or Heaven upon death?" => death is grave, silence, no knowledge, etc. In other words dead people are just dead. So I also was wondering "what's the great contradiction with going to Hell or Heaven upon Judgment?" => judgment is to correct people, not to punish them forever. Thanks... The other issue is having this whole bucket filled with so many marvellous truths (the b-t website) and not being able to just send the address to most of my friends here in Brazil... I'm native Brazilian and can understand English pretty well because I work for an American/Canadian company, but my friends would just read the first paragraphs and have a hard time going further... I know that is also part of God's plan (to have thought me English so I could even know about this website and Ray's ministry). God will provide, I'm sure He doesn't depend on me (amem!) and for sure I or someone else will be able to translate if not all, at least some of his papers to Brazilian Portuguese for other brothers here to learn.

God bless you all...

In Christ,
Levy Carneiro
Santos - SP - Brazil

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