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Time and Eternity
Gina:
That's so cool, Dave.
hehe "J. Preston Eby... and all these other turkeys," I love it. (That's such an east coast expression.)
servias:
From The "Time and Eternity". Just watched this a couple of days ago and this quote is nagging at me....
"Made from what? From something. What? Things that don’t appear. THINGS. Are there things that don’t appear? Yes. Is God a thing? Yes God is a thing, I think that He’s a thing more than He is a person. But some people fault me for not suggesting that God is a person. But He is some ‘thing’ and the creation is out of Him."
Has Ray gone into any more details on this? I've kind of thought the same thing before but I can't explain it. Is God Physical too? I've always wondered if God IS everything? Hope somebody can show me some scripture on this.
Dan
Gina:
This might help. See if you can figure out what's being said:
Nor does God create things out of NOTHING:
"...IN [Greek is ‘in’ not ‘by’] Him [Christ] is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth..." (Col. 1:16).
"For OUT [the Greek is ‘out’ not ‘of’] of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR [Greek is ‘for’ not ‘to’] is ALL" (Rom. 11:36).
So creation is "IN Christ," but "OUT of God." Not out of "nothing." The universe consists of the things of God’s already eternally existing SELF. God is SPIRIT (John 4:24). And what is matter but invisible spiritual power and energy?
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that THINGS which are seen [physical matter] were not made of things [were they then made of nothing? NO] which DO APPEAR" (Heb. 11:3).
There it is. God made everything out of things that DO NOT APPEAR [invisible things] not out of things that do appear [physical things], and this is because GOD HIMSELF IS INVISIBLE!
http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
(Bold and underline added.)
Would it be safe to conclude that Ray was saying that he believes God is (at least in part aside from Spirit) invisible energy and power? Maybe that doesn't sit well with some people, but I have no problem with that. Even so, would that change anything that we know are the right things to do?
Kat:
Hi Dan,
That is something I have pondered on many times, this question about who/what is God the Father. Something that has occurred to me is when you consider that God has always existed, well would this eternal being/thing actually be able to be contained into a singular shape/form? To me I do not see how that could be possible. He is eternal and all the physical and even spiritual things in the heavens and on earth were His ideas, He is the ultimate designer of all the things that hold a shape or form. Though of course the Father gave this task of creation to His Son so that "all things were created through Him and for Him." But when it says that "He/Jesus is THE image of the invisible God," would/could that mean Jesus is the only image the invisible God has?
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Here is an excerpt from the 06 Mobile Conference 'WHAT IS "THE FATHER'S WILL?'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3720.0 -------
So let’s think about this a little bit, who is the Father? In Him we live and breath and have our being. Liken the ocean to the Spirit of God, and liken us to the fish. The fish are 95% water, the ocean is in the fish, and the fish are in the ocean, get it.
A bird has very porous bones, because they have to be very light. It flies in the heavens, it breaths fast, because it needs strength and oxygen. So the air (which is like the Spirit of God, which is what he calls it in the NT, Greek word for spirit is pheuma), the expanse is even called heaven, where the bird flies, and liken the air to the Spirit of God. The bird has air in him and is flying through the air.
Now this is what the scripture say, we are in God and God is in us. So, get it out of your head that God is a man, sitting on a stone throne, like Abraham Lincoln in Washington D.C., an old man with gray hair. God is right here, it (Bible) says so, we have to just listen to the words.
God is Spirit, it also says God is invisible, you can’t see Him, not literally. We can see Him in Spirit, as in our heart, in our mind, our soul, our spirit, in our intermost being.
The thing that makes us different from plants and other animals, is we can see God. I’m trying to help you right now, to see God. So when you leave here, you will see God in a way you didn’t, when you walked in here. If God opens it up to you, I can only tell you, but God must open it up for you to grasp it.
God is here, not here because we are here, but He was here before we got here and He’ll still be after we leave. Because this desk is here and this desk has it cohesion in Jesus Christ. It is through Jesus Christ that this desk holds together or it would fall apart. It takes energy and power, what is the source of the power, Jesus Christ, which comes from the Father and it’s passed off out of Him. One Father, one God, all and everything is out of Him. GOD IS ALMIGHTY!
What did Jesus say when He left His apostles and vanished out of their sight.
He said, “all power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth,” (Matt. 28:18).
That’s why He has come, He’s not the Father, but He’s God and He possesses all power in heaven and earth. By being the One, who possesses all power in heaven and earth, He is God. He didn’t have all power in heaven and earth from all eternity, it was given to Him. One God, everything is out of that God. We’re in Him and He’s in us, because He’s Spirit. Not a Spirit, in some geographical location. The reason God knows everything, is in all places at all times, is because that’s where He is. He’s Spirit and He refers to Himself as Spirit. My Spirit is here, there and everywhere.
David was inspired to write, where can I go to get away from you God, up to heaven, down to sheol, (Psalms 139:7-12).
There’s no place I can go, where you are not. Why? God is Spirit, God is not a man, get that out of your head. He (God) tells us that, God is not a man, Jesus Christ is a man.
Where is God? EVERYWHERE!
If your in a life raft, out in the middle of the ocean, you don’t have to cry out to God, to help you. God can see you, in the big ocean. He’s there, whether He’ll help, that’s a different story. But He is there.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
servias:
I need to wrap my head around all of this!
Thanks for directing me where to look.
Here is some more confusion that this makes for me. Since God's spirit is everywhere all the time, where is his spirit in times of evil? Do we see less of his spirit around us during evil. Kind of like the old cliche of the devil talking in one ear and an angel in another. I know that sounds silly but is evil perhaps a lack of god during the time evil is existing? Or is evil its own thing and power?
I know this all sounds like over thinking... Well it is... ;D I over think and do not expect a complete answer because in the end these little nuances I have don't matter to much.
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