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Author Topic: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?  (Read 12149 times)

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2012, 11:40:22 AM »


Hi whyisthatso,

Quote
I have never been a part of any of this world's church ( false ) system. The Father called me from my mothers womb. I was born to know the truth. ( as all of the elect of God are ).  He has already determined our path, who, when , where,  etc.  So it matters not how we got to where we are. All that matters is that we are here.


This comment of yours gives me pause. "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" (Eph 1:4), certainly I see this is true. But I do not feel that our eyes are opened to the truth from birth, in Scripture the Holy spirit comes and your eyes are opened as mature adults. First we are all deceived (Titus3:3), we go to church hear about Christ (first love), are taught the man made doctrines and we do leave our first love (Rev2:4). So then after we have had our "experience in evil" (Ecc1:13) and have developed a dark backdrop, then we are called out this darkness (2Cor6:17; Rev18:4) and He shows us His marvelous truth.

1Peter 2:9  But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

So what I am saying is that I believe we do go into the false church, Babylon and then are called out. Yes if we are Elect we will with a certainty be prepared and made ready by the time of our death. But any Elect would be kept humble and not be presumptuous about being chosen and continue to strive to endure to the end.

2Ti 2:11  This is a faithful saying:
       For if we died with Him,
          We shall also live with Him.
v. 12  If we endure,
          We shall also reign with Him.
       If we deny Him,
          He also will deny us.
v. 13  If we are faithless,
          He remains faithful;
       He cannot deny Himself.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 02:09:11 PM by Kat »
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 01:48:30 PM »

Oh, boy, David.  I don't know about all that. 

Kat?  ---------------->  http://youtu.be/AWtZ1TqMq4g

:-D

(Just kiddin' David!  I have my doubts about you, but you're fascinating and very smart, if nothing else.)



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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2012, 02:41:42 PM »

Thank you for your reply, David.  I wanted to respond to your post (perhaps a little more appropriately?  I'm easily amused I guess) now that I have a little more time.   

I'll say it again - you are very smart.  Yes, these things are revealed to us by the Spirit.  I agree.  Paul even said something of that very sort.

I suppose it's alright that you never were a part of the world's false church system, but when did you leave your "First love"? Hmmmmm?  ;) ;D

 :)
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doug

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2012, 03:08:11 PM »

Speaking of John the Baptist:

 for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even from his mother's womb;...  Luke 1:15  YLT

Wasn't John one of God's elect even from his mother's womb?
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2012, 03:18:24 PM »

'fraid not. 
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doug

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2012, 03:22:03 PM »

'fraid not.

Please explain. 

There is only one spirit of God.
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doug

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2012, 03:36:05 PM »

So, am I to take Luke 1:15 as a spurious verse even though it says that John was filled with the Holy Spirit right from the get go?  What else does one need to be an elect of God?
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2012, 03:44:36 PM »

Doug, he didn't even know who Jesus Christ was:

Matt.  11:2-3  When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"

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doug

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2012, 04:11:00 PM »

Doug, he didn't even know who Jesus Christ was:

Matt.  11:2-3  When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"

Gina, In my opinion, that verse has nothing to do with John being filled with  the Holy Spirit.  What John had said was because of doubt.  He was afraid for his life.  He was in a fox hole so to speak.  He didn't understand that while he was imprisoned, it wasn't what he had anticipated.  He was frightened and he wanted to know for sure that what he had seen when the Dove came upon, was surely the One.

The Comforter is another name for God's spirit.  It was "poured out" at the time of pentecost.  That doesn't mean that no one ever had the Holy Spirit before.

There is only one spirit of God.  Eph. 4:4. 
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2012, 04:27:04 PM »

Luke 12:2  There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

I am not a teacher.  I don't have the answer for you.  I'm sorry.   But it will come to you and to  me.  Fear not!

All I know is, Jesus Christ's death and resurrection ushered in the new covenant, for which John the Baptist was not around to partake.  He was doubting -- I would have been too!  Afraid?  So was Jesus before his crucifiixion.  I would have been too! 

Was John the Baptist "filled with" or "moved by" the Spirit of God?   Doesn't matter.  There were others moved by the Spirit of God in the OT.  Neither will they be in the first resurrection.  But ALL will be saved through the same FIRE.

Again:  There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.  ( Luke 12:2 )  You will know the answer eventually.
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doug

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2012, 04:41:05 PM »

Thanks for your encouragement JFK and Gina.   :)

I am convinced that what you have to say is true.  Do you know how Ray would say that he was playing the "devils advocate"?
Well, that is what I am doing now... only not like Ray... who knew the Truth beforehand... the Truth hasn't been revealed to me as yet, so I have to propose these types of questions in order to get it all straightened out in my mind.  Can you follow me?

I know it will all eventually fall into place... but in the mean time it makes me "antsy"!  I know - patience doug - patience!  :-\

I'm eagarly waiting for you to get off work and for your response John.   8)
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Gina

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2012, 04:48:30 PM »

Thanks, Doug.  I totally understand and I'm glad you brought it up.  It was a great question and one I'd never encountered before.  Thank God we have all of Ray's material to refer to!
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2012, 05:01:02 PM »

Maybe this will also help:

 Hebrews 11

 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

 3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

 5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

 9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

 10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

 11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

 12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

 13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

 15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

 16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

 20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

 21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

 22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

 23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

 24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

 25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

 26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

 27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

 28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

 29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

 31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

 32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

 33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

 34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

 35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

 36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

 39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
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Kat

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2012, 05:24:04 PM »


Hi Doug,

Quote
The Comforter is another name for God's spirit.  It was "poured out" at the time of pentecost.  That doesn't mean that no one ever had the Holy Spirit before.

I think that the Holy Spirit certainly worked with/upon people in the OT, but there is no other way to be saved accept through Jesus Christ, He is key and absolutely necessary in the process. I know the God of the OT is who became Jesus Christ, but He was not yet Jesus Christ who died on the cross as a sacrifice for sin before He was born of Mary.

John 10:1  Truly, truly, I say to you, He who does not enter into the sheepfold by the door (Jesus Christ), but going up by another way, that one is a thief and a robber.

Rom 5:10  For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
v. 11  And not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Here are a few places where Ray speaks on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3120.0 ---------------------------

Acts 4:12 And there is no salvation in any other one, for neither is there any other name, given under heaven among men, in which we must be saved."

The word "must" (Greek means 'necessary, behooves, binding') shows that salvation
    can not come by or through any other ways or means, than the NAME of Jesus Christ, ONLY.
    Hence, the emphasis upon that Name. Jews, for example,  cannot be saved  in the Name of "God" aside from the Name of Jesus as John Hagee teaches.  They MUST acknowledge the "Name" of Jesus Christ.


http://bible-truths.com/part2.htm -----------------------------------

And here is their only salvation:

"And there is NO salvation in any other one, for neither is there any other name, given under heaven among men, in which we MUST be saved." (Acts 4:12)

How could anyone have the audacity to suggest that Africans and Chinese by the billions are responsible for their own salvation through their "conscience" without any knowledge of God or Christ's blood and His sacrifice for them? If a person can be saved by his "conscience," then he doesn't need Jesus Christ. Do you really want to teach such a farce?

Look at the twelve hand-picked Apostles. They walked and talked with Jesus day and night, seeing miracle after miracle for three and one-half years. Yet in Gethsemane they all forsook Him. Peter cursed His Savior three times in one night. And you would have us believe that man, in himself, has the ability to do right and walk the walk and qualify for salvation? You might respond: "But I never said that." Sure you did. You only say it's all of God and pretend to give God all the credit for salvation, but in the end, your teaching always holds man responsible for his own salvation. Why else did you invent your own analogy?

According to modern Christian teaching, if the twelve Apostles had all been killed that night in the Garden by the Roman soldiers, they would have all gone to "Hell!" Theologians would say: "They had their chance." Well, if salvation is a thing of "chance" then I guess they had a better "chance" than most people. But they blew their "chance" didn't they? Why can't we learn from these simple Scriptures? These twelve Apostles lived closer and longer in an intimate relationship with our Lord than any other human beings in the history of the World, and yet, after three and one-half years they all rejected and forsook Him, all in one night.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2385.0.html --------------------

 John the Baptist will not be in the Kingdom before us. And that goes for all the patriarchs of old. Heb. 11 proves that none of them received the promises to them and furthermore, it proves that they will come into the Kingdom only by and through US (See Verses 39-40).
   

http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm -----------------------------

Here is the briefest outline of how God  "saves us:"

Jesus Christ must first "CHOOSE" us (John 15:16). You donít choose Him until He first chooses you. You have no "free will" by which you choose Christ. Christ CHOOSES YOU, or you arenít chosen. (Be sure to read my four-part series on "Exposing the Myth of Free Will" on this site).

The Father then "DRAWS" [Gk: Ďdrags usí]" us to Christ (John 6:44). You donít come without an invite. What may seem like a "free choice" on your part to come to Christ, in reality is the Father dragging you by many unseen circumstances beyond your view or control.

By GRACE, God gifts us with FAITH (Eph. 2:08. Both are from God; man contributes NOTHING. If you donít give God credit for all of your faith then you donít have any faith, because faith comes ONLY from God.

Then "the goodness of GOD leads you to repentance" (Rom. 2:4). Our repentance originates in GOD, not in ourselves. If God doesnít lead someone to repentance then they CANíT REPENT.

We are spiritually "BAPTIZED into Christís death" (Rom. 6:3).

    "For he that is dead is freed from sinÖ For SIN SHALL NOT have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under GRACE" (Rom. 6:7 & 14).

And it is the grace of God ONLY that will save us. But HOW and WHEN? What does it mean to be "under grace?" Answer:

    "For the GRACE of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING US [Gk: Ďto train, educate, discipline, punish, chasten, instruct, learn, teachí] that, denying ungodliness and worldly lust, we should live soberly [with a sound mind], righteously, and GODLY, in this present world" (Titus 2:11-12).

If you are not doing this and growing every day, then you are not being graced by God, and you are not on your way to salvation. The grace of God WILL DISCIPLINE AND CHASTEN us into obedience to all of Godís Spiritual laws and commandments.

    "Whosoever will come after Me, let him DENY himself, and TAKE UP HIS CROSS, and FOLLOW ME" (Mark 8:34).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I decided to add this last excerpt to show all that is require in God's plan for our salvation.  So just trying to show you the teaching where I gained my understnding on this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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doug

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2012, 05:40:46 PM »

We read in Heb 11:39-40, "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect."

Was this promise these faithful saints didn't receive in this verse that of receiving the Holy Spirit or that of obtaining the first resurrection after death?  Or something else?  The answer to this question must, in my opinion, take into consideration that the chapter is about the especially faithful.  Sometimes, it is helpful to concentrate on one word of a verse in question and find the same word in the context. (I know Ray's "context, context, context" so I believe I am using the term correctly!).  In this case the word is "better".  We read in Heb 11:35, "...that they might obtain a better resurrection."

What is a better resurrection?  I believe it is a resurrection unto rewards.  We read in Rev. 20:4 that those of the tribulation who will not receive the mark of the beast will partake in the first resurrection and will reign with Christ a thousand years.  Actually, all believers will be raised at the first resurrection including those of Heb 11, but not all believers will reign with Christ.  That is a special reward for the faithful.

This is best seen in II Tim in regard to believers of the present dispensation.  We read in II Tim 2:12.  "If we suffer we shall also reign with Him."  Of course, in my opinion, our reigning will be with Christ; and the faithful saints of Hebrews and Revelation will reign on earth (but not with Christ).  But it's the same principle, i.e. the faithful will be rewarded by reigning.

Consider also I Cor 9:24:25, "know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize?  So run, that ye may obtain.  And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things.  Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible".  Note the "crown", it denotes reigning.  This tells us that all faithful believers will reign with Christ.

So the promise the saints of Heb 11 had not yet received was, in my opinion, the "better" resurrection".  A better resurrection is a resurrection unto the reward of reigning with Christ.  Far from Heb 11:40 having to do with anyone not being spiritually converted, it is a promise "of some better thing".
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Kat

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2012, 06:18:04 PM »


Hi Doug,

All Scripture must fit together in perfect harmony, you can not exclude the verse in Acts 4:11 that I gave you which states "for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved" and others like it.

Here is an email that addresses the Hebrews 11:35.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,973.msg8056.html#msg8056 -----

Are you saying that no one from the OT will be in the 1st. resurrection? In Heb. 11 it mentions a number of people who suffered that v.35 they might obtain a better resurrection. Luke 13:28 says the patriarchs will be in the K. of G. while others are denied entrance at that time. I understand that all will eventually receive eternal life. Is it not correct to say that all will enter the Kingdom  (which lasts forever and is handed to the Father) after receiving eternal life 1sr. Cor. 15:24; Dan. 7:27?
    May God continue to use you to free many of us from our enslavement to HWA's teaching.
    Mel
 
 
    Dear Mel:
    The fact that some will enter into the Kingdom before others, does not necessarily mean that those will, therefore, be in the first resurrection.  Remember that in judgment some will be given few stripes (as I suspect the patriarchs of old will be), and other MANY stripes, which indicates that those with many stripes will come in at a later time. In Rev. 21 we see people entering into the city, but without, there are those who are not as yet entering in.
     
    Read verse 40 of Heb. 11:  "God having provided some better thing for US [for 'us' not 'them']. that THEY without US should NOT be made perfect"  It is only through US, that THEY will thereafter [after the first resurrection] be perfected (make complete).
     
    Even King David (a man after God's Own heart), died a MURDERER.  He appointed his son Solomon as a hit man to KILL David's enemies after he was gone.  And James tells us that "he who hates his brother is a murderer, and no murderer has eternal [eonian] life abiding in him."

    God be with you,
    Ray
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doug

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2012, 06:19:12 PM »

Thanks Kat for the input

The verses that you give are talking about salvation.  It's understood by all of us that the term salvation is not an "instant" concept but won't occur until either at the first resurrection or at some time in another age.  But eventually all will be saved.

And yes,  there is no other name under heaven that anyone can be saved.  The verses you showed proved that.  He is the Door by which we enter etc..  Therefore in this life time -  dispensation -  no atheist, buddist, Muslim, confuciest, or what I am understanding now... any "church goer" will be "saved" in this generation... before Jesus Christ comes back for the first resurrection.  I believe what those verses you supplied are saying that you cannot be "saved" by any other god.  Only THE God, Jesus Christ.  In my opinion they do not apply to the Holy Spirit indwelling someone or who will or will not be in the first resurrection. 

I don't believe that just by His physical appearance while on earth, that that is what is needed for someone to enter in the first resurrection but that it WAS needed in order to be "saved" in this age and of course the next.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2012, 06:38:44 PM »


Hi Doug,

Quote
  In my opinion they do not apply to the Holy Spirit indwelling someone or who will or will not be in the first resurrection.
 

This Holy Spirit indwelling that saves anybody is Christ's Spirit. But it was not given until He was crucified and returned to the Father.

John 7:39  Now this He said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.

Rom 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him.

1Peter 1:10  About which salvation the prophets sought out and searched out, prophesying concerning the grace for you;
v. 11  searching for what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ made clear within them, testifying beforehand of the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow.
v. 12  To them it was revealed that not to themselves, but to us, they ministered the things which are now reported to you by those who have preached the gospel to you in the Holy Spirit sent from Heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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whyisthatso

  • Guest
Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2012, 06:39:02 PM »

Thanks Kat, and Gina. You kinda tag-teamed me there.......wooaa, just getting up now, ok , up.  Seriously though, thanks to all of you for your input.  I don't quite know what to say Kat. I could say something like, " Let he who thinks he stands take heed, lest he falls ", but I dont think thats appropriate. I could tell you all about my life, but I dont want to bore you either. And besides I dont think you would believe me anyway.  All I can do is ask you if you believe that all the truth that God revealed to Ray is all there is to know and understand ? And do you suppose that Ray is the only person that God has called to teach them ?  Please do not think that I am one to teach, I would never assume that title and position. "title and position", now that reminds me of another question. Have any of you been given any understanding of the "kingdom (government) of God" as it pertains to such ?  Or do you believe that we will all be the same somehow ?  Not that we are all the same now, but thats irrelevant . ( or is it  ?).  Just curious, honestly.
        It is my understanding that when Christ spoke of the first being last and the last first,  He was not speaking of order, as in the resurrecton from the dead.  But that He was speaking of position in the Kingdom.  We have many scriptures that tell us that most (if not all) of the OT "saints" received God's Spirit (Christ), and will be there.  But many (if not most) of them will not be "first" in terms of position.  Even as much as they endured and went through, they are not as qualified to rule over this earth as Gods elect today and future,  for the simple reason, among others,  that they lived in a different age.|
        Also do you believe that the "church" started with Christ, or do you suppose it has always existed ? Like the "church in the wilderness" for example ?   Honestly, I'm just trying to understand better. Thats all I have ever wanted to do...... since birth, honestly .  I have a lot of questions Kat, I always have. And the fact that God blessed me enough to ask them and to know and understand the answers to many.......from birth, without any of this worlds false indoctrination,  I cannot appologize for.  Maybe I am a misfit, or oddball somehow, I dont know.  Or maybe a "virgin" ?

                                                                                                In love, David
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2012, 07:04:14 PM »

Thanks Kat, and Gina. You kinda tag-teamed me there.......wooaa, just getting up now, ok , up.  Seriously though, thanks to all of you for your input.  I don't quite know what to say Kat. I could say something like, " Let he who thinks he stands take heed, lest he falls ", but I dont think thats appropriate. I could tell you all about my life, but I dont want to bore you either. And besides I dont think you would believe me anyway.  All I can do is ask you if you believe that all the truth that God revealed to Ray is all there is to know and understand ? And do you suppose that Ray is the only person that God has called to teach them ?  Please do not think that I am one to teach, I would never assume that title and position. "title and position", now that reminds me of another question. Have any of you been given any understanding of the "kingdom (government) of God" as it pertains to such ?  Or do you believe that we will all be the same somehow ?  Not that we are all the same now, but thats irrelevant . ( or is it  ?).  Just curious, honestly.
        It is my understanding that when Christ spoke of the first being last and the last first,  He was not speaking of order, as in the resurrecton from the dead.  But that He was speaking of position in the Kingdom.  We have many scriptures that tell us that most (if not all) of the OT "saints" received God's Spirit (Christ), and will be there.  But many (if not most) of them will not be "first" in terms of position.  Even as much as they endured and went through, they are not as qualified to rule over this earth as Gods elect today and future,  for the simple reason, among others,  that they lived in a different age.|
        Also do you believe that the "church" started with Christ, or do you suppose it has always existed ? Like the "church in the wilderness" for example ?   Honestly, I'm just trying to understand better. Thats all I have ever wanted to do...... since birth, honestly .  I have a lot of questions Kat, I always have. And the fact that God blessed me enough to ask them and to know and understand the answers to many.......from birth, without any of this worlds false indoctrination,  I cannot appologize for.  Maybe I am a misfit, or oddball somehow, I dont know.  Or maybe a "virgin" ?

                                                                                                In love, David

Well, David, you just said it.  Can't unring a bell.  lol

I know Ray said he didn't know all there was to know, so obviously there is more to know and understand.  But we're going at the pace that God has set for us -- not you.  And we have a lot to learn from Ray, still.  So, maybe you could try and exercise a little patience with us.

And since you brought it up, please tell me about your life.  I'll be honest.  I googled your moniker and found you on the forum "Bible Unmasked" back in 2008.  Why did you make a prediction regarding comets impacting the earth in the years 2012-14 ("no pun intended")?   Nothing boring about that.  What do you know that the rest of us don't know?  lol

And why did you say on that forum that all things originate from Thought (aka God)?  Is that what God is?  Thought?  Not judging.  Just trying to understand better.   I'm pretty open minded, but learning to not be so open minded that my brains fall out.  hehe

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 07:07:43 PM by Gina »
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