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Author Topic: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?  (Read 11372 times)

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wasco55

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Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« on: May 28, 2012, 03:27:20 AM »

In all the studies I have done about Gehenna, Hades and Sheol, I am  still left with a question mark.
We know the Greek words Hades and Gehenna, but do we know if Jesus used these terms?

Was the Greek words Gehenna and Hades implemented in the Aramaic language Jesus spoke,
or did he use the old Hebrew words when he preached his Sermon on the Mount and told the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?


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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2012, 03:47:03 AM »

I'm afraid all anyone can do is speculate the answer to that.  But I would venture to say, No, He most certainly did not use any Greek when speaking to the Jews;D

But what if He did?  Does that change anything we know to be truth?  How could it?
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2012, 04:09:21 AM »

Though, it just occurred to me that there may have been among those that heard the Sermon on the Mount other people than Jews; there may have been Greeks and Italians.  Or maybe there wasn't, seeing Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel:

Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 04:13:43 AM by Gina »
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Kenneth Clark

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2012, 05:03:59 AM »

wasnt gehenna a greek word and hades a jewish word...if so or the other way around Jesus would have spoken either or
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wasco55

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2012, 06:26:44 AM »

Kenneth Clark - No Hades is a greek word. But in the Greek translation of OT Septuginta,  the Hebrew word Sheol is translated Hades

Gina I'm not sure if there were so many listeners when Jesus gave Sermon on the Mount. Mat 5:1  And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2  And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Looks like he was only preachint to his disciples
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Samson

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2012, 11:22:05 AM »

In all the studies I have done about Gehenna, Hades and Sheol, I am  still left with a question mark.
We know the Greek words Hades and Gehenna, but do we know if Jesus used these terms?

Was the Greek words Gehenna and Hades implemented in the Aramaic language Jesus spoke,
or did he use the old Hebrew words when he preached his Sermon on the Mount and told the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?

Jesus & The Apostles Used The Greek Septuagint Translation of The Hebrew Scriptures(Old Testament). Although Jesus and the Others spoke Hebrew/Aramaic, they knew Greek, it was the official Language of the Roman Empire. The Word Hades is Greek and is the exact equivalent of Sheol literally meaning " the unseen, imperceptible, Sheol is Hebrew.

Acts. 2:27 uses the word Hades and is a quotation of Psalm. 16:10 proving that Sheol & Hades are equivalent. Sheol is incorrectly translated Pit or Grave in the Old Testament, but should be translated Sheol every time. Grave is similar to Sheol & Hades, but is not exactly the same. Grave is referring to  the burial place of an individual Person. The Greek Word for Grave is Taphos. I don't recall the Hebrew word for Grave. Interestingly, the Greek Word used in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is Hades, not Gehenna.

About Gehenna, this word has nothing to do with Sheol(Hebrew) or Hades(Greek). The Greek word Gehenna literally means "Valley of Hinnom," or "Valley of the Son of Hinnom," Ge' = Valley and Henna = Hinnom.

Jer 7:28  But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
Jer 7:29  Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the LORD hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.
Jer 7:30  For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
Jer 7:31  And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the VALLEY OF THE SON OF HINNOM, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
Jer 7:32  Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.

2Ki 23:10  And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.

In Jesus Day, this former location used for Idolatrous Worship where they offered their Children as Sacrifice to the god Molech, became Jerusalem's Garbage Dump, hence Ge' Henna or Ge' Hinnom.

Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Gehenna)

Mar 9:47  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell(Gehenna) fire (Pur).

Jas 3:6  And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell(Gehenna).

geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

Below are references from Ray in Blue Color.

Hades IS sheol. Hades is the Greek translation in the New Testament when an Old Testament Hebrew verse is quoted containing the word "sheol." Here is an example:

    Acts 2:27--"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [Gk: hades], neither wilt thou suffer Your Holy One to see corruption"

This is a quotation of Psalm 16:10:

    "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither wilt thou suffer Your Holy One to see corruption."

So the Holy Spirit inspired the New Testament writers to translate the Hebrew word sheol into the Greek word hades. Therefore, sheol IS hades and hades IS sheol, and this is precisely how Dr. Strong defines them:

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary: #7585, "sheol, hades or the world of the dead."

Technically, I could end our study on the meaning of hades right here. I have already written two Installments on sheol in which we saw that sheol is the state of the dead--not hell, not even the grave, but the state of the dead. And as sheol IS hades, hades cannot take on any greater or opposing meaning that is not contained in an older parent language word "sheol."

No matter how fanciful one's ideas may be regarding the use of the word hades in the New Testament, it does not take on the meaning of consciousness, judging, torture, chastisement, annihilation, or eternity. It is the UNSEEN, IMPERCEPTIBLE, UNCONSCIOUS STATE OF THE DEAD called sheol throughout the Old Testament Scriptures.

[2] Matt. 10:28 & Luke 12:5

    "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [Gehenna].

    "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell [Gehenna]; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Luke's account is the same as Matthew's, however, it is a shorter version. From Matthew we learn that God is "able to destroy" our very soul in Gehenna. But that is not a wicked thing, but a good thing. It is a good thing to loose (apollumi-destroy) our carnal soul for God's sake, and this destruction of the soul for God takes place in Gehenne. See Matt. 10:39 losing (destroying, "mortifying the deeds of the body" Rom. 8:13) takes place in spiritual Gehenna, Verse 28.

[3] Matt. 18:8-9 & Mark 9:43, 45, 47

    "Wherefore if your hand or your foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from you: it is better for you to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting [eonian] fire. And if your eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell [Gehenna] fire" (Matt. 18:8-9).

This is the very same teaching Jesus gave on the Mount, but we now have one added factor. The "Gehenna fire" of verse 9 is also called "eonian fire" in verse 8. They are therefore the same. Eonian fire is Gehenna fire and Gehenna fie is eonian fire. This phrase "eonian fire" is found only one other time in Scripture:

    "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting [Gk: 'aionios/eonian' or 'age-abiding'] fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41).

And so Matt. 18:8 is a pivotal Scripture in our understanding of Gehenna fire, everlasting fire, and lake of fire. The spiritual Gehenna fire, is the very same eonian fire which are used to Judge Gods people-the House of God. Then Jesus tells us it is also the very same fire that will be used to Judge Satan's messengers. And these messengers/angels of Satan are his "transformed" [Gk: metaschēmatizō, 'disguised'] ministers of righteousness: "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (II Cor. 11:15).

All of Satans ministers-the deceived clergymen of the Church, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH, will not be judged until the Resurrection to Judgment at the Great White Throne, and that Judgment is in The Lake of Fire. Thus we now have it on the authority of Jesus Christ, that Gehenna fire, eonian fire, and lake of fire, are all the same spiritual fire of God, seeing that "Our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29), and God does not change.

Jesus says that Gehenna fire is eonian, not eternal. And the ministers of Satan will go into this eonian fire. Now then if the fire is eonian for us, then it is likewise eonian for them. We only go through God's Gehenna/eonian fire for our eon, our life. A man's life is an eon, his eon. So eonian fire cannot be eternal, or we, God's chosen Elect, would go through Gehenna fire for all eternity. Now then, since it is only a temporary fire for us, the very SAME fire can be only temporary for the rest of humanity as well. Truly, the Scriptures do not contradict.

On the very same occasion recorded in Mark 9, we have two more additions to this teaching: The mention of "their worms die not," and "everyone shall be salted with fire."

We already discussed the meaning of these worms earlier in this paper. But this added phrase of our Lord is very instructive. Notice again that Jesus is speaking to His twelve apostles (Mark 9:35), not the multitudes. So, when He states that, "everyone shall be salted with fire" in Verse 49, He is telling His Apostles that THEY will be salted with fire. Hence this Gehenna fire cannot be eternal, but it is good, "Salt IS GOOD" (Verse 50).

This is admittedly a strange phrase, as technically we do not "salt" anything "with fire." It is a kind of play on words. As we salt food to bring out its best, so God will salt us with fire, to bring out our best. But once more, it is not eternal torture, it is temporary purification.

[4] Matt. 23:15 & 33

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves"

    "You serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell [Gehenna]?"

This one might seem a little more severe on the surface than the others, but it's not. In the first verse Jesus says that they turn their proselytes into children of hell or Gehenna. Let's think about that for a moment. I have now been accused, literally hundreds of times, of leading people into hell, and that I will receive so much greater punishment and damnation from God for leading "others" into hell.

Imagine that? One person can be responsible for, and the single cause of another person loosing their salvation and then being tortured in literal fire for all eternity, and God can't or won't do anything about it. I guess it's just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. If all those hundreds of thousands of people had just not come to our site for some reason, they would then be saved, but now they are being lead into the eternal torment of an eternal hell. What a Christian crock.

Imagine the mother and father of such a person that would be consigned to an eternity of torture because of my false and deceitful teachings, asking God why He didn't close me down? or prevent their daughter from coming to my site? or protecting them from being deceived by me in the first place? How hard could that be for God Almighty to save a precious son or daughter from being deceived by me? But no, it is assumed that I outsmarted God, and conquered one of His dear Sons or Daughters, and became the sole reason for them loosing their salvation. What do you suppose God would say to such a scenario? Well as it will not and cannot happen, we don't need to surmise such utter unscriptural nonsense.

Did the Pharisees encompass land and sea to make one proselyte and then turn that convert in a "child of Gehenna?" Yes, of course they did, Jesus said they did. But will that "child of Gehenna" loose salvation and be tortured eternally in some Christian hellhole of fire because they were outsmarted by these Satan-inspired clergymen? Of course not. Not only will those the Pharisees deceived and turned into children of Gehenna not loose salvation, but this hypocritical blind leaders of the blind will not loose salvation either.

Verse 33 tells us how they will be saved. They will be saved by "the DAMNATION of Gehenna." What is this damnation? It is JUDGMENT. We have gone over this many times in our "Lake of Fire" series. The word "damnation" is from the Greek word, krisis, and it means "tribunal, justice, accusation, condemnation, damnation, JUDGMENT." What specific judgment is Jesus talking about? Why the damnation of JUDGMENT OF GEHENNA. Is not this "judgment" then an evil thing? No, it is a RIGHTEOUS thing! It's just that the old English word "damnation" sounds so terrible and awful, when it is not.

WORM DIES NOT:

The word "worm" appears in most bibles three times in Mark 9. However, Mark 9:48 is the only time it appears in the earliest and best Greek manuscripts. Mark 9:44 is spurious, and Mark 9:45b ("...into the fire that never shall be quenched") and 9:46 are all spurious. The one time it is used in verse 44, it is a quotation from Isa. 66:24. Worm is translated from the Hebrew word Itola, and is defined as "a maggot." It's one time use in the Greek is from skolex, and also is defined as 'a maggot.' These are not tube worms at the bottom of the ocean, but rather maggots. And as any school boy knows, maggots are not immortal, but rather in a few short days turn into common house flies, which then lay more eggs on garbage, produce more maggots which then produce more flies to lay more eggs... And hence, they do not die [out] but just keep reproducing over and over. I am sure that some of the flies at your last picnic may have been descendants of the very maggots of which Jesus spoke of from the Gehenna city garbage dump at Jerusalem.

Now then, what was the purpose of these maggots and fire in the valley of Gehenna? To destroy that which is putrid and worthless; to purge; to purify the city of its garbage. That was their physical purpose and Jesus has the same thing in mind when He uses these symbols, word pictures, and analogies to represent His spiritual sin-purging judgments.

We know that Peter said, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the House of God..." (I Pet. 1:17); and that Paul said, "For if we would judge ourselves..." (I Cor. 10:31); and Jesus said that we ourselves must "Agree with our adversary quickly," and we ourselves must "pluck it [our eye] out and cast it from us," etc. But do all these things constitute being judged by "worms and fire?" Absolutely. Gehenna fire does not represent eternal torture in literal flames upon the wicked. It represents cleansing and purging of His called and chosen Elect, now, in this Church age.

    GEHENNA FIRE IS EVERLASTING [EONIAN] FIRE:

Next notice that Judgment for offending with our eyes, hands, or feet, is once again called Gehenna fire in Matt. 18:9. But back in verse 8 this Judgment for the same sin is called "everlasting [Gk: 'aionios/eonian/age-lasting] fire."

So here we have Scriptural proof that Gehenna fire, and everlasting [eonian/age-abiding] fire are one and the same fire. And so "everlasting/eonian fire" is just another term for the judgment of Gehenna.

    GEHENNA FIRE/EONIAN FIRE IS THE LAKE OF FIRE:

When Jesus returns to this earth in glory with His holy angels (Matt. 25:31), He will come with great power to JUDGE (Rev. 19:11), and those who oppose Him will be thrown into "a lake of fire" (Verse 20). Satan also is cast into this "lake of fire" (Rev. 20:10), and "death and hell/hades" is cast into this "lake of fire" (Verse 14).

Now then, what fire does Jesus say he will use for His judgment on the goats and on the Devil and his messengers? It is "everlasting/eonian/age-abiding fire" (Matt. 25:41). Once more we have clear Scriptural proof that all these descriptions of fiery Judgment are the very same fire, and that Fire is GOD:

    "For our God is A CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

Gehenna fire is the furnace of fire, the unquenchable fire, the everlasting [Gk; eonian/age-abiding] fire, and the lake of fire, as we just saw proven by Scripture.

Below is a good email response of Ray's regarding Hell(Hades) & Hellfire(Gehenna Fire).

[Ray replies]

Dear Robert:

Thank you for your e-mail and your demeaning curiosity about me.

First of all, maybe your professor should do his own homework before giving assignments which label people he knows nothing about.

I will try to answer your questions succinctly:

I am NOT a "cult." However, if you read the latest books on what constitutes a "cult," you will find that the [orthodox] Christian religion fits ALL the categories that qualify a religion as a cult.

I DO NOT have a "church." I belong to the body of Christ, which is the only true called-out assembly.

No, I do not hold that I alone have the correct interpretation of the Bible.

I DID NOT start a "religion!"

The Scriptural doctrines that I believe are NOT mine, and they are NOT new.

My "advanced training in the Bible" did not come from a school.

Yes, I believe that Jesus "rose from the dead." But, probably, unlike your professor, I REALLY BELIEVE THAT JESUS WAS DEAD BEFORE HE WAS RAISED.  Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world--Jesus Christ's "body" did not die for the sins of the world!  We do not have a "cadaver" for a Savior! Jesus Christ, "HE" (not just His dead body) is the savior of the world, therefore, contrary to Christian teaching, Jesus Christ's HIMSELF died, and Jesus Christ HIMSELF was raised from the dead!

What makes you think I accept the "bible" as being "inspired?" I believe the Holy Scriptures written in Hebrew and Greek ARE INSPIRED! Bibles are translations, or as with KJV a revision of a revision, and thus are open to human error.

I DO NOT HAVE "followers."  I tell my readers to believe in and follow Jesus Christ!

And I pray to God that no one who reads my material thinks that I am a "prophet or priest!"

I hope this answers your questions.  Be sure to show this note to your professor, and say "hello" for me.

Humbly in Christ's service,

Ray

Hope this helps, Samson.

 


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onelovedread

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2012, 11:46:27 AM »

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm

JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES ON THE MOUNT

The following verses taken from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount make it abundantly clear that Jesus was not addressing the Pharisees, or Saducees, or the Priests, or Scribes, or even the multitudes which did not follow Jesus up the mountain, but waited for His return. Rather, Jesus addressed His Own disciples (of whom there were initially, many) who followed Him up the mountain. These only He instructed regarding a much higher standard of conduct and judgment:

"...and when He was set, His DISCIPLES came unto Him" (Matt. 5:1)

"And He opened His mouth, and taught THEM [His disciples]" (Ver. 2).

"Blessed are YE [all you disciples]..." (Ver. 11).

"...for great is YOUR [disciples'] reward..." (Ver. 12).

"YE [disciples] are the salt of the earth..." (Ver. 13).

"YE [disciples] are the light of the world..." (Ver. 14).

"Let YOUR [disciples'] light so shine..." (Ver. 16).

"For verily I say unto YOU [disciples]..." (Ver. 18).

"For I say unto YOU [disciples]..." (Ver. 20).

"YE [disciples] have heard that it was said..." (Ver. 21).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... whosoever is angry..." (Ver. 22).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... shall say to his brother, Raca..." (Ver. 22).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... whosoever shall say , 'You fool' shall be in danger of hell [Gehenna] fire" (Ver. 22).

"Therefore if YOU [disciples] bring your gift..." (Ver. 23).

"Agree with YOUR [disciples] adversary quickly..." (Ver. 25).

"Veryily I say unto YOU [disciples], YOU [disciples] shall by no means come out thence, till YOU [disciples] have paid the uttermost farthing" (Ver. 26).

"But I say unto YOU [disciples], that whosoever looks on a woman to lust..." (Ver. 28).

"And if YOUR right eye offend YOU [disciples], pluck it out, and cast it from YOU: for it is profitable for YOU [disciples] that one of YOUR members should perish, and not that YOUR whole body [the bodies of Christ's disciples, not the wicked unbelievers in the day of Judgment] should be cast into hell [Gehenna fire]" (Ver. 29).

"And if YOUR right hand offend YOU, cut it off, and cast it from YOU: for it is profitable for YOU [disciples of Mine] that one of YOUR members should perish, and not that YOUR whole body should be cast into hell [Gehenna fire]" (Verse 30).

Any question as to whom Jesus addressed His "Sermon on the Mount?" Is this "Gehenna fire" for the world of unbelieving sinners, or for His Own Disciples?
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wasco55

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2012, 11:59:00 AM »

Thanks a lot Samson for your information. I was not aware that Septuginta was in use in Israel at the time of Jesus. I know it was This was new information to me. I know it was written 200 years BC, but just thought it was used among the Jews in diaspora.

I agree with you on that onelovedread
This is another point that contradicts that Jesus talks about "hell" in the Sermon on the Mount. If he really wanted to warn people against an eternal damnation, why should he not tell this to all the people
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2012, 02:18:54 PM »

Gina I'm not sure if there were so many listeners when Jesus gave Sermon on the Mount. Mat 5:1  And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
Mat 5:2  And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
Looks like he was only preachint to his disciples

Yep, you're right.  Just testing ya!  hehe

Excellent replies, everybody.  (You too Wasco55!)

Tah-tah
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2012, 02:46:07 PM »

And, a few more thoughts, Wasco55, to put your mind at ease:

Though we know there isn't, let's suppose for the sake of argument there were such a place of never-ending/eternal suffering made for the wicked and unbelieving.  Wouldn't that:

1. make God out to be more wicked and evil than Satan, or Hitler, or Sadam and a thousand others throughout history all together?

2. make Jesus an utter and total failure, seeing He would not be able to save / free people from the law of SIN and DEATH?  (Sorry, Jesus, I know you want to, but I'm afraid my sin is just too much for you to do anything about.  The thought is ridiculous.)

3. make God stupid for commissioning Jesus to be the Savior of the WHOLE WORLD (seeing how Jesus would then fail at saving the whole world).

And lastly, it would:

4.  make not one bit of sense.  Why would God make something (humanity) knowing full well (the end from the beginning) that it will malfunction (after all, the flesh is weak), and then toss the majority of humanity in a furnace of literal fire and brimstone to be burned for ever and ever and ever (I jest) as punishment when it does the very thing He knew all along it would do?

We just have to believe God and not fraudulent theologians.  It's that simple.  Easier said than done for some of us.  It's going take time, and lots of it, to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:8 For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

But some believe Jesus will fail at that.  I don't think so.

God bless.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 02:49:06 PM by Gina »
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Samson

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2012, 03:25:56 PM »

Thanks a lot Samson for your information. I was not aware that Septuginta was in use in Israel at the time of Jesus. I know it was This was new information to me. I know it was written 200 years BC, but just thought it was used among the Jews in diaspora.

I agree with you on that onelovedread
This is another point that contradicts that Jesus talks about "hell" in the Sermon on the Mount. If he really wanted to warn people against an eternal damnation, why should he not tell this to all the people


Actually Wasco55, My apologies, I gave you the wrong Email of Ray's regarding Gehenna, Read Below ! That's what happens when I rush trying to get many things done with 1 3/4 of a Leg,  ;).

Dear Dan:

I am sure that you are completely convinced that what I am saying in my material is wrong, evil, and of the devil. You are primarily basing all of that on a few mistranslation and false teachings of Christendom.

Your knowledge of the word "hell" is quite lacking. Hell has NOTHING to do with fire. "Hell fire" mentioned in the KJV is from the Greek word "Gehenna."  It is a valley south of Jerusalem. It used to be the city garbage dump. As such it was on fire. As garbage and organic materials were constantly thrown into this fire, the worms there did not die out, but kept on multiplying until there was nothing left to eat. The valley is STILL in Jerusalem, Dan, but the fire is OUT and there are no WORMS there.

The word "hell" in the KJV is translated from the Greek word "Hades" which means the UNSEEN or etymologically, UN=PERCEIVE or IMPERCEPTIBLE.  There can NOT be feelings, torture, pain, etc., in a place that by its very name means to have NO PERCEPTION OF ANYTHING!! People must first be resurrected from Hades before they will have perception again.

Are you interested enough in the Word of God to study this word and see if I am correct?

In Luke 8, the demons did not fear going to "hell." Read it, Dan, they feared being put back into the "deep" as it is in KJV or more properly the "submerged chaos." It is the SAME word translated "bottomless pit" in Rev. where Satan is held for a thousand years, and THEN he is put into the "lake of fire" (Ver. 10). (He is held in the pit because God has one more dirty work for Satan to perform before he begins his purification in the lake of fire (not the pit).

There is NO WORD in either the Hebrew or Greek scriptures that means "eternal" or "everlasting" or "for ever and ever."  Since there is NO SUCH WORD IN THE BIBLE, all such translations are WRONG and misleading.  See the first ten pages of my letter to John Hagee for absolute proof of this. If you don't agree, prove me wrong SCRIPTURALLY!

Dan, on a personal note. I know you feel very smug and comfortable in calling me OF THE DEVIL and that the DEVIL HAS ME and that I AM OF MY FATHER THE DEVIL, etc., etc. However, a word of warning:  The one time that the Pharisees accused Jesus of doing something of the devil or the prince of demons, He warned them that if something really is of THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD and one says that that is really THE SPIRIT OF THE DEVIL, then they have committed a sin that will NOT be pardoned in this life (or age or world) or in the age to come. Such people WILL have to suffer the punishments of the lake of fire to be purified of such evil sins.

Sincerely,

Ray
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wasco55

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2012, 02:19:14 AM »

Thank's a lot Gina for sharing these thoughts with me

Thank's once again to Samson also
I enjoyed Ray's explanation of Hades. This is the best interpretation of this word I've ever seen
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whyisthatso

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 11:45:30 AM »

Does anyone here remember what things where like in say....the year 1800 ?  No, of course not.  And that is because we had not been born yet, we did not exist.  This is what hades ("hell") is like.  Before we are born we do not exist (except maybe in the mind of God ).  Then when we are born (given life), we experience "death" and return to that same sate of being, and that state being "dead" ( no life ).
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 01:32:38 PM »

"Does anyone remember what things were like in the year 1800"?   Bad example, David.  We can't go back there, but we have some records, David.  Even pictures/paintings.  But I see what you're trying to say.  It's just not quite right.  Not to argue.

When people die they don't know they're dead.  But they're loved ones do!  Do you know and feel the emptiness of someone that was there and now isn't?   Maybe, maybe not.  But my memory isn't erased of them simply because they are now dead. 

So no, it's not like the year 1800.

Not to be pushy, but have you had an opportunity to study any of Ray's papers, David?
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2012, 02:45:56 PM »

A better example, if we absolutely have to use one that Ray hasn't already used or isn't in the bible, might be to ask

"Do you remember what you were thinking when you were put under anesthesia when you had your gallbladder removed?"

I remember nothing when my wisdom teeth were removed.  I was out for 45 minutes at least and when I woke up, it felt like I closed my eyes for a few seconds and then woke right back up.  That's what death is like. 

David, your example is like saying, "You can't possibly know what Abraham Lincoln was like at all because you weren't born yet -- you weren't there."

But that's not right because we have records and pictures so we can kind of know. 

But death is like sleep, it is not like "not being alive in the 1800." 

And not being born yet is not the same thing as having been alive and now being dead.  But I see what you're saying. 

Again, I don't mean to be argumentative.  Just paying attention to all the words.  :)
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whyisthatso

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2012, 05:39:32 PM »

Thanks Gina, but I think you missed a word....."remember", as in first hand knowledge, actually being there in time.  We have no knowledge, or memory, or anything of any time before we are born into this world. The same applies to death, the state of being is the same. And as to sleep, did you know that medical science today , as advanced as it is cannot tell us why we sleep ? They can figure out how we sleep, and when, etc. But they cannot say why.  But if they , as a scientific community,  knew God they would understand. When we go to sleep at night, it is a picture of our death, and when we wake up in the morning, when we "rise" ( "rise and shine" ), it is a picture of our ressurection from death.  The Father has a way of hiding things in plain sight.
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Gina

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2012, 06:52:22 PM »

That is fascinating, David.  :)
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whyisthatso

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2012, 09:04:42 PM »

It is , isn't it Gina. And not because we can see it, but because it's true. The physical reveals the spiritual in many ways. Take water for example. God uses water to symbolize His Spirit. And God, through His Spirit can be the most destructive force on earth ( and no surprise He used water before ) ,  or the most healing, regenerative, life giving force on earth.  And physical water on this planet is the most powerful physical force on earth, while at the same time is also the most life sustaining force on earth.  I marvel all the time at the beauty and majesty of this physical creation we are a part of. It has His signature all over it.  So thats why He can say we (man) are without excuse .
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Cypress

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2012, 10:47:02 PM »

I love that. I think I'm going to cry :).
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Elaine

whyisthatso

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Re: Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 10:12:00 AM »

Hey Gina, just wanted to respond to your question about "if I have had the oppurtunity to study any of Ray's papers".  Yes Gina, I have read most if not all of his teaching.  But you most know that the truths Rays taught, I did not learn from him.  I already knew these things before I read his work.       Truth is revealed, not learned.    Oh yes, I know that we can "learn" from someone, but whoever that person is, it is not that person teaching us.

       "Whom shall He teach knowledge ? And whom shall He make to understand doctrine ? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast.  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little "


         I have never been a part of any of this world's church ( false ) system. The Father called me from my mothers womb. I was born to know the truth. ( as all of the elect of God are ).  He has already determined our path, who, when , where,  etc.  So it matters not how we got to where we are. All that matters is that we are here.
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