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Did Jesus use the words Gehenna and Hades?
Kat:
Hi Doug,
All Scripture must fit together in perfect harmony, you can not exclude the verse in Acts 4:11 that I gave you which states "for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved" and others like it.
Here is an email that addresses the Hebrews 11:35.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,973.msg8056.html#msg8056 -----
Are you saying that no one from the OT will be in the 1st. resurrection? In Heb. 11 it mentions a number of people who suffered that v.35 they might obtain a better resurrection. Luke 13:28 says the patriarchs will be in the K. of G. while others are denied entrance at that time. I understand that all will eventually receive eternal life. Is it not correct to say that all will enter the Kingdom (which lasts forever and is handed to the Father) after receiving eternal life 1sr. Cor. 15:24; Dan. 7:27?
May God continue to use you to free many of us from our enslavement to HWA's teaching.
Mel
Dear Mel:
The fact that some will enter into the Kingdom before others, does not necessarily mean that those will, therefore, be in the first resurrection. Remember that in judgment some will be given few stripes (as I suspect the patriarchs of old will be), and other MANY stripes, which indicates that those with many stripes will come in at a later time. In Rev. 21 we see people entering into the city, but without, there are those who are not as yet entering in.
Read verse 40 of Heb. 11: "God having provided some better thing for US [for 'us' not 'them']. that THEY without US should NOT be made perfect" It is only through US, that THEY will thereafter [after the first resurrection] be perfected (make complete).
Even King David (a man after God's Own heart), died a MURDERER. He appointed his son Solomon as a hit man to KILL David's enemies after he was gone. And James tells us that "he who hates his brother is a murderer, and no murderer has eternal [eonian] life abiding in him."
God be with you,
Ray
doug:
Thanks Kat for the input
The verses that you give are talking about salvation. It's understood by all of us that the term salvation is not an "instant" concept but won't occur until either at the first resurrection or at some time in another age. But eventually all will be saved.
And yes, there is no other name under heaven that anyone can be saved. The verses you showed proved that. He is the Door by which we enter etc.. Therefore in this life time - dispensation - no atheist, buddist, Muslim, confuciest, or what I am understanding now... any "church goer" will be "saved" in this generation... before Jesus Christ comes back for the first resurrection. I believe what those verses you supplied are saying that you cannot be "saved" by any other god. Only THE God, Jesus Christ. In my opinion they do not apply to the Holy Spirit indwelling someone or who will or will not be in the first resurrection.
I don't believe that just by His physical appearance while on earth, that that is what is needed for someone to enter in the first resurrection but that it WAS needed in order to be "saved" in this age and of course the next.
Kat:
Hi Doug,
--- Quote --- In my opinion they do not apply to the Holy Spirit indwelling someone or who will or will not be in the first resurrection.
--- End quote ---
This Holy Spirit indwelling that saves anybody is Christ's Spirit. But it was not given until He was crucified and returned to the Father.
John 7:39 Now this He said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him.
1Peter 1:10 About which salvation the prophets sought out and searched out, prophesying concerning the grace for you;
v. 11 searching for what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ made clear within them, testifying beforehand of the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow.
v. 12 To them it was revealed that not to themselves, but to us, they ministered the things which are now reported to you by those who have preached the gospel to you in the Holy Spirit sent from Heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
whyisthatso:
Thanks Kat, and Gina. You kinda tag-teamed me there.......wooaa, just getting up now, ok , up. Seriously though, thanks to all of you for your input. I don't quite know what to say Kat. I could say something like, " Let he who thinks he stands take heed, lest he falls ", but I dont think thats appropriate. I could tell you all about my life, but I dont want to bore you either. And besides I dont think you would believe me anyway. All I can do is ask you if you believe that all the truth that God revealed to Ray is all there is to know and understand ? And do you suppose that Ray is the only person that God has called to teach them ? Please do not think that I am one to teach, I would never assume that title and position. "title and position", now that reminds me of another question. Have any of you been given any understanding of the "kingdom (government) of God" as it pertains to such ? Or do you believe that we will all be the same somehow ? Not that we are all the same now, but thats irrelevant . ( or is it ?). Just curious, honestly.
It is my understanding that when Christ spoke of the first being last and the last first, He was not speaking of order, as in the resurrecton from the dead. But that He was speaking of position in the Kingdom. We have many scriptures that tell us that most (if not all) of the OT "saints" received God's Spirit (Christ), and will be there. But many (if not most) of them will not be "first" in terms of position. Even as much as they endured and went through, they are not as qualified to rule over this earth as Gods elect today and future, for the simple reason, among others, that they lived in a different age.|
Also do you believe that the "church" started with Christ, or do you suppose it has always existed ? Like the "church in the wilderness" for example ? Honestly, I'm just trying to understand better. Thats all I have ever wanted to do...... since birth, honestly . I have a lot of questions Kat, I always have. And the fact that God blessed me enough to ask them and to know and understand the answers to many.......from birth, without any of this worlds false indoctrination, I cannot appologize for. Maybe I am a misfit, or oddball somehow, I dont know. Or maybe a "virgin" ?
In love, David
Gina:
--- Quote from: whyisthatso on May 31, 2012, 03:39:02 PM ---Thanks Kat, and Gina. You kinda tag-teamed me there.......wooaa, just getting up now, ok , up. Seriously though, thanks to all of you for your input. I don't quite know what to say Kat. I could say something like, " Let he who thinks he stands take heed, lest he falls ", but I dont think thats appropriate. I could tell you all about my life, but I dont want to bore you either. And besides I dont think you would believe me anyway. All I can do is ask you if you believe that all the truth that God revealed to Ray is all there is to know and understand ? And do you suppose that Ray is the only person that God has called to teach them ? Please do not think that I am one to teach, I would never assume that title and position. "title and position", now that reminds me of another question. Have any of you been given any understanding of the "kingdom (government) of God" as it pertains to such ? Or do you believe that we will all be the same somehow ? Not that we are all the same now, but thats irrelevant . ( or is it ?). Just curious, honestly.
It is my understanding that when Christ spoke of the first being last and the last first, He was not speaking of order, as in the resurrecton from the dead. But that He was speaking of position in the Kingdom. We have many scriptures that tell us that most (if not all) of the OT "saints" received God's Spirit (Christ), and will be there. But many (if not most) of them will not be "first" in terms of position. Even as much as they endured and went through, they are not as qualified to rule over this earth as Gods elect today and future, for the simple reason, among others, that they lived in a different age.|
Also do you believe that the "church" started with Christ, or do you suppose it has always existed ? Like the "church in the wilderness" for example ? Honestly, I'm just trying to understand better. Thats all I have ever wanted to do...... since birth, honestly . I have a lot of questions Kat, I always have. And the fact that God blessed me enough to ask them and to know and understand the answers to many.......from birth, without any of this worlds false indoctrination, I cannot appologize for. Maybe I am a misfit, or oddball somehow, I dont know. Or maybe a "virgin" ?
In love, David
--- End quote ---
Well, David, you just said it. Can't unring a bell. lol
I know Ray said he didn't know all there was to know, so obviously there is more to know and understand. But we're going at the pace that God has set for us -- not you. And we have a lot to learn from Ray, still. So, maybe you could try and exercise a little patience with us.
And since you brought it up, please tell me about your life. I'll be honest. I googled your moniker and found you on the forum "Bible Unmasked" back in 2008. Why did you make a prediction regarding comets impacting the earth in the years 2012-14 ("no pun intended")? Nothing boring about that. What do you know that the rest of us don't know? lol
And why did you say on that forum that all things originate from Thought (aka God)? Is that what God is? Thought? Not judging. Just trying to understand better. I'm pretty open minded, but learning to not be so open minded that my brains fall out. hehe
Thanks.
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