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Extol:

--- Quote from: octoberose on June 06, 2012, 08:48:37 PM ---
  When asked by friends, I still don't know what to say in response to why God would want to harden hearts and minds. I know He does, but I still have difficulty seeing the why of it. I have no answer but am reminded that He said to  Job, "where were you when I laid down the stars?  ". In other words, we are not God and we don't have His mind. Is there something though I'm missing as to the why of it?

--- End quote ---

Hi octoberose,
 Some of the Roman Christians were wondering the same thing. Here is what Paul wrote to them:

Romans 9:20-23, Concordant Literal New Testament

20 O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, "Why do you make me thus?"
21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?
22 Now if God, wanting to display His indignation and to make His powerful doings known, carries, with much patience, the vessels of indignation, adapted for destruction,
23 it is that He should also be making known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He makes ready before for glory --

New International Version, v. 23: What if he did this [hardened the hearts of some] to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory...

New Living Translation: He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory.

As Gina reminded us, a backdrop of evil is necessary for good. We would not know or appreciate the mercies of God if there were not hardened hearts to contrast those mercies. If not for God's mercies, we would all be hostile towards God like your son. Your son's hardened heart reminds us of God's great mercies; it also reminds us of our complete inability to repent on our own. All is of God. And remember, all of us did have hardened hearts at one time or another. Each of us comes to God at the appointed time, and it just isn't your son's time right now. As God enables you, trust in His sovereignty.

I will leave you with one of my all-time favorite Ray quotes:

There is a great PURPOSE in it all. And all will turn out just great in the end. We need a spirit of wisdom to trust God that He knows EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING DOWN TO THE VIBRATION OF THE LAST ELECTRON.

lauriellen:
I am not sure that i have the right idea, but i have so totally changed my world view, i hardly resemble the person I was 3 years ago....but this is how i have come to believe:
1Co_4:5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

to my shame, i admit that i was SUCH a self-righteous, judgemental and un-compassionate person before. I road my high horse well, looking down my nose at "weak" people who couldn't overcome problems like addiction, compulsive behaviors, weaknesses of any kind....i was raised to believe "when the going gets tuff, the tuff get going."... "jerk yourself up by your bootstraps and quit whining."...."life is what you make of it"....you get the idea.....i thought people trapped by addiction, sexual orientation, behaviors had either (1) made their own choice to live that life or (2) were too weak to overcome it......either way, they were to be shunned (1Co_5:11  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat....etc)...and of little worth (Pro_6:16  These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
)...and  it was "okay" to feel that way about them, because doesn't God also hate them?....

But like Paul, I was knocked to my knees....completely shatterred....and as i sat in the ruins of my 'house built on the sand."....my heart was changed....The thought that we have no FREE will, that each life was predetermined as to what must be, and all vessels are formed from the same lump by God himself, just changed EVERYTHING for me.....

It is NOT that i  believe that anything goes, or that nothing is a sin....it is just that i see people as PRISONERS of sin and completely UN-able to free themselves without the direct intervention of God. ALL mankind is in BONDAGE until and unless we are freed by our heavenly Father, in the appointed time, which i also reaalized would NOT be in this age for most of humanity. Now my heart weeps for those prisoners, i mourne for their losses and sufferings. I see how precious and valueable EVERY life is......

Oh that i would have had this knowledge and this heart when i began raising my boys! Sometimes i just sit and cry like a baby when i think of SOOOOO many things i would have done differently, and how different things might be now if i had.......How many relationships with friends and family did i DESTROY because of my judgemental attitude?....my stomache hurts just thinking about it.......But i just have to get up and dust myself off and remind myself that ALL is of God.....ALL in the world is just exactly as He planned and purposed it to be...

Isa 25:1  LORD, you are my God; I will exalt you and praise your name, for you have done marvelous things, plans made long ago in faithfulness and truth.
Isa 25:4  For you have been a stronghold for the poor, a stronghold for the needy in distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat—for the blistering attack from the ruthless is like a rainstorm beating against a wall,
 Isa 25:6  And in this mountain Jehovah of Hosts shall make a feast of fat things for all the people, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of refined wine on the lees.
Isa 25:7  And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering which covers all people, and the veil that is woven over all nations.
Isa 25:8  He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord Jehovah will wipe away tears from all faces. And He shall take away from all the earth the rebuke of His people. For Jehovah has spoken.
Isa 25:9  And one shall say in that day, Lo, this is our God. We have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is Jehovah; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.

Gina:
You definitely have the right idea, Lauriellen.

octoberose:
Amen and amen.
 I came just needing to know how to deal with pain and yet not lose my ultimate joy in the Lord. I think I've received that. I hope some of the others who read this also profit from your wisdom and kindness. We all have a burdens to carry. I'm going to copy this and remember it.

HoneyLamb56:
Octoberose, I understand where you're coming from; my parents are still in the "church" and I think because of their age they keep preaching to my brothers; they want my brothers to change their ways before they (my parents die, if they are taken first); my parents feel that they have to do something; they don't judge them, even tho it breaks their hearts...they just feel it their mission to change them; I try to tell them differently but they don't hear (God's plan).

Lauriellen, you have responded so eloquently; your words really hit my heart and mind. 
So much edification on this site.
I'm going to save all the responses and let my parents read; guess my mission is to change my parents (lol)  ;)

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