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Who will we be?
Craig:
--- Quote ---So ,I just want to say..That there is a lot of Scripture that I can give to make a "case" if you will.But here is the facts:
Do you agree with any of the teaching that Ray espoused? If you answer yes, then why do you want to debate things that either goes against what Ray taught or bring in new teachings?
1. Cant teach on Forum.
You agreed to this rule when joining the forum, there are many posts explaining why this rule is in effect
2. Many people seem to have already established what they believe and thats the way they do things.
Sure people here can believe whatever they want.
3. Why try to give a "case" when you have know the cards are stacked?
Why are they stacked? You knew the rules when you joined but now want to ignore them ?
a.If you try thats teaching your out.
You are not out, but you may asked to not to teach or have your posts removed.
b.If you challenge your either need to read Rays teaching again or its a "myth".
If you are here to challenge then you probably won't feel welcome. I for one don't think I would ever call your beliefs a "myth" I may not agree but anyone on this forum is free to believe whatever they want.
c.Or the very worst one...You can see clearly of a matter which is only a opinon because even though you give Scripture you some how didnt see it the right way?
Again, we are not here to debate. And we are not here to change your mind. Why do you want to debate?
So,Just to make the record straight I am so thankful for what" "God"... did through His vessel Ray Smith.And some may say well if you dont like it truth than why are you here?
I would never ask why you are here, but I would ask why do you want to debate something that you don't agree with rather than growing in what we can agree with? There are hundreds if not thousands of bible based forums and websites that will let you debate and sharpen your beliefs until you die, but that is not the purpose of our forum
Which is a logical question.In which I would say .....were Am I to go?To the church on every corner?
I hope you can stay here, I hope you can grow with the teachings that are here and I hope you can continue on your journey with your other questions by your own studies or study with others of like mind by PM's, emails or start your own forum and website.
Craig
--- End quote ---
Kat:
Hi Jerry,
According to E-Sword there are 11 places in which the phrase "sons of God" is found in the Bible. Job has 3 and I believe it can be determined that all the places outside of Job is referring to humans. Now the Scripture that you referred to in Job is speaking of a time when these "sons of God" are rejoicing at the creation.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
That had to be before people were created on earth, so we can safely presume that it was angels. Here is where Ray's speaks on this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html --------
It says, “In a beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” But then we read something over in Job 38.
Job 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
v. 2 Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge?
v. 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; For I will demand of thee, and declare you unto Me.
v. 4 Where was you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, it to Me if you have understanding.
v. 5 Who determined the measures thereof, if you know? Or who stretched the line upon it?
v. 6 Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone thereof,
v. 7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Whoops, wait a minute, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…” And this is the beginning of things? Apparently not. What was the first created, the heaven or the earth? The heavens... and the earth. So when we come to the earth, the heavens are already created. And when He creates the earth, low and behold we have the morning stars shouting for joy. Where did they come from, if this is in the beginning?
Alright, first of all when it says morning stars, this is the breaking of day, the dawn. So what is the breaking of day or dawn? That’s when the earth moves and the sun appears to go up and come down. The whole thing is working! Everything is already working, the earth is turning and now these sons of the dawn, of this turning earth, are shouting for joy and singing.
But we learn in Job 1, that these sons of God presented themselves to Him and Satan came among them. Remember what Satan was saying about Job, and God said, well you can do anything you want, but spare his life and so on. These are the angelic beings, we’re not told where they are created in Genesis. But now we know. They had to be created between the heavens and the earth. So by the time the earth was created, they are already here. Now we got the proof.
So He created the heavens and He creates the earth, and then God had to probably say, ‘alright turn it on.’ ‘Turn it, spin it.’ Okay now we got day and night. ‘Now push it, push it around the sun.’ Ok now we have the seasons. The days and nights, and seasons, it’s all starting to work. And the sons of God are shouting for joy and singing.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
the truth:
Thanks Craig!
I never want to debate what Ray has taught here only discuss.I realize that through pm we can talk through the teachings of Rays.Just because I don't see everything Ray has taught as Gospel doesn't mean I am trying to debate anything.If I pose a question does that equal debate?IF I am at your house I will play by your rules.I have no problem with that.I guess in some ways its like the church on every corner it breaks your heart to see them content in their teachings that's all.So thanks for your time Craig and I appreciate your kindness in the matter.
the truth:
Thanks Kat!Your a Jewell!!!will send a response ;D
Dave in Tenn:
Don't let your heart be broken for me. There's not a single area of my life or my understanding that hasn't been affected by what's on BT. I don't see everything the way I saw things (or sometimes imagined things) when I first came. There has been change and growth, but it's been change and growth INTO, not away from, what I've learned since coming here.
Just speaking for myself, but I haven't encountered ANY other teaching which does anything other than draw me away from the joy I experienced those first few weeks or tried to get me off on some wild-turkey chase down some meaningless theological rabbit-hole.
The more we study (and LIVE), the more 'true' truth becomes. The Bible is a big book and others have taken a different way in and come to many of the same conclusions. But nobody I've encountered has been so careful with the Word and working through the 'apparent' contradictions in Scripture and the Spiritual contradictions between the Churches and the Word of God. The way Ray 'comes in' is exactly the way I needed. Still is, still do.
This is not a church. It's a web-forum. If it was a different type of web-forum, I wouldn't be typing this message today because I would NEVER have joined it.
So no pity for me, please. I can't say any of the above for any church I've ever attended on any street-corner...including the internet.
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