> General Discussions
are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
eagle:
Thank you Ian and Gina for your kind response.
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---By the way, I love when new questions are posted, It makes me study God`s Word. Just saw new awesome things regarding :
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Wanna hear it? Okay, you all may know this, but this is new to me. Here is How I see it now:
The flaming sword is not the Word of God. The word "flaming" is translated from the hebrew Lahat,which is only used twice in the Old Testament.
The other place it is used is in:
Exd 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments
Enchantments (Lahat) means "to use occult and magical arts". Has the Word of God anything to do with magicians and enchantments? Certainly NOT!! (I´m imitating Ray here
The word that is translated sword comes from the hebrew word chereb,
which already there smells a lot like the word Cherubims, and does mean sword. Chereb is derived from the word Charab, which means: to be waste, to lay waste, make desolate....
The word that is translated Cherubims comes from the hebrew word
Keruwb which according to Strongs means: of uncertain derivation; a cherub or imaginary figure.
"which turned every way". In hebrew it reads "the one turning/overturning herself"
"and he placed at the east...". In hebrew it says" and he is causing to tabernacle..."
So who is this woman caused to tabernacle,that is turning herself into a
keeper of the way of the tree of life??
I believe Jesus gives the answer:
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in
--- End quote ---
Hello eagle.Here are a few of Rays comments on using Strongs as a way of understanding things of the Spirit.
HOW WE GOT THE BIBLE
You say, ‘but Ray it says image and I looked that up in Strong’s Concordance and it means like a statue.’
Of course that’s what it means. Jesus Christ said you should cut off your hands too. This is your hand and a knife is something you use to cut it off. He said to do that. But that is not what He meant.
You say, ‘well then why did He say it?’ He said it so that those to whom it was given would understand exactly what He meant and those that think everything is literal, physical and statues, would not understand it.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6840.msg54571.html#msg54571
It is not as simple as looking up words in Strong's Concordance to understand the finer meaning of Scriptures.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6291.msg50803.html#msg50803
It is USAGE that determines the meaning of words. I have explained this several times in my writings, but you apparently have not gotten that far as yet.
There is credence to almost all the examples given in Strong's Dictionaries (but not all, however, and that is where teachers come in).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4226.msg32193.html#msg32193
Dear Justin:
You cannot learn the true meaning of such words as "ad, olam, aion, aionios," etc. by reading a commentary or lexicon, or concordance like Strong's. Dr. Strong defines "aion" as = "age" AND "eternity."
When the Christians (who have doctrines to defend) write dictionaries and commentaries, they often lie concerning the meaning of words that go against their false teachings. It takes a real teacher to point out these gross errors.
That's like defining "minute" as "hour" AND "century." It's nonsense. If all one had to do to learn the truth of these words was to look them up in a dictionary, I wouldn't need to even have a web site. You need to read and study (for a couple of hundred hours, at least) my paper: "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural?" You have to see how these words are USED, and have been USED, in Scripture, histories, etc. I do not, for example, teach the truth concerning the damnable Christian doctrine of hell, by simply consulting Strong's dictionaries or any other dictionaries. Dictionaries can be a starting point, but it involves a whole lot more than that.
Peace...Mark
eagle:
Hello Mark
I can see from your profile, that you´re a guy, so am I, then meet me mano a mano, instead of your cowardly insinuations where you use Ray´s
writings, even making your own underlining in Ray´s writings. I am not a teacher, and sure don´t want to be, that is why I use the phrase "This is how I see it". People are more than welcome to agree,disagree,like or dislike, or better yet: prove me wrong or right. Some of the few posts, I have posted have taken me hours and hours of study and prayer with the hope, that it will bless maybe one or two. Your snakelike attempt to "rebuke" me failed. And if you want to answer to this, don´t send a personal message. Meet me on this board.
In love (albeit tough :) )
Eagle
Marky Mark:
eagle,the flaming sword is Jesus Christ.
If fire is judgement and the sword is Gods Word then by Scriptural definition the flaming sword is Jesus,and not what Mr.Strong in his unscriptural definition describes in your post eagle. Calling the flaming sword an enchantment or imaginary figure is by Scriptual definition... wrong.
Some more of Rays teaching on the subject,if you don't mind.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm
The word "fire" is used with reference to Judgment many times in Scripture:
"Gehenna fire," "salted with fire," "furnace of fire," "unquenchable fire," "everlasting fire," "burn by fire," "baptism by fire," "coals of fire," "flaming fire," "eternal fire," "consuming fire."
http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34).
Anyone offended by this statement of our Lord? Isn’t our Lord "The Prince of Peace?" Jesus did not come to bring armies of armed men to do battle on this earth, but that is the literal meaning of His statement. We know that by the sword Jesus had reference to God’s Word, but those who heard Him make this statement didn’t know that. The force of His speech by doing so is undeniable. Many years later we are given the following verse of Scripture which teaches us what Jesus really meant by "a sword."
"For THE WORD OF GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any TWO-EDGED SWORD, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:12).
Now to your slander eagle.
--- Quote ---Hello Mark
I can see from your profile, that you´re a guy, so am I, then meet me mano a mano, instead of your cowardly insinuations where you use Ray´s
writings, even making your own underlining in Ray´s writings.
--- End quote ---
Considering that this site is an inpouring of concern based on the teachings of one L. Ray Smith,and most people come here for that very reason,that is,to learn the truths of God based on the teachings of one L. Ray Smith of bible-truths.com reputation, how then, pray tell, do you expect to discuss Rays teachings without quoting him at times when his teachings are exactly why this forum even exists? Either you can come to see and understand what this forum is based on,or you cant.
--- Quote --- I am not a teacher, and sure don´t want to be, that is why I use the phrase "This is how I see it". People are more than welcome to agree,disagree,like or dislike, or better yet: prove me wrong or right.
--- End quote ---
It isn't whether someone can prove you right or wrong, but rather, do we come to an understanding consensus based on Scripture and Rays spiritual insight.You do not have to agree with anything that I post,or Ray for that matter,but your false understanding of Scripture concerning the flaming sword is a bit much.Have you even read any of Rays material?
--- Quote ---Some of the few posts, I have posted have taken me hours and hours of study and prayer with the hope, that it will bless maybe one or two. Your snakelike attempt to "rebuke" me failed. And if you want to answer to this, don´t send a personal message. Meet me on this board.
--- End quote ---
May I ask how me posting a few of Rays answers on the proper use of the Strong's concordance makes me out to be a rebuking snake? If you have a problem with what I posted my friend, then from what I see,you have a problem with what Ray teaches and not with me.But,let the record show, if I did not fully agree with what Ray stated in those few responses, we would not even be having this discussion...
--- Quote ---In love (albeit tough )
Eagle
--- End quote ---
In His tough love...Mark
Kat:
Hi eagle,
Well as you said, "to agree,disagree,like or dislike,or better yet: prove me wrong or right" in a post... So that is true, when you present a post on this forum you have to be ready to accept any of those critical responces. So why do you come back with such venom in your responce to what you already said you knew (and welcomed) that you might get? To accuse someone of being "snakelike" falls in the category of name calling and is not allowed.
When you see "new awesome things," rejoice that the Lord has revealed something to you. But something 'new' that has not been covered in Ray's material should not be brought here.
Just a reminder.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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