> General Discussions
Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
Gina:
Amen, Deb. That's right.
If I might add just a couple things...Adam surely had knowledge. When God brought him all the animals, he knew what to name them.
Adam also learned that none of those animals would make a good helper meet for him.
When God put Adam and Eve in the garden, God taught them how to till the soil and how to eat. So they knew a lot.
God wised her and Adam up a little right quick didn't He. It's like, Um, hello! I'm naked. And I'm hidinggggg because I don't anyone to see this!
onelovedread:
OK. I've been trying to follow this thread. Here's the gist of what I got. I hope I haven't mis-represented anyone. This is mainly for my benefit to understand what's been said. I'd really appreciate any clarification or addition of something I may have missed out. Thx
Eugene: “…would I be on track to conclude that Satan started with a LIE and exhibited a truth to BEGUILE or deceive?”
Marques: “It was a complete lie on Satan's part.”
Eugene “…but God SAYS EXACTLY what Satan said ...”
Marques: “.. God does not say exactly what Satan says.”
Eugene: “THAT DAY, is the key i missed...”
Joel: “Satan is a liar, and loves to lie on God, using scripture if it is a means to beguile and cause someone to miss the mark in serving God.”
Greg: “… I was always told that a good liar uses 90% truth.”
Micah: “I don't see where "Adam and Eve knew they were not (to) eat of this tree, that demonstrates a knowledge of good and evil?" …So where did the woman get this knowledge?”
Indiana Bob: “The woman was the responsibility of the man. So she should have gotten the knowledge from "pillow talk" with her husband.”
Eugene: “Ray mentioned that "Ye" refers to "you all" speaking of more than one person. or an irregular pural of thou. so with that in mind...maybe it's something to, "...he (the serpent) said unto the woman". and not to the man….”
Marques: “The Lord confronted Job in Job 38 by asking, rhetorically, who gives counsel without knowledge. That is not like Eve at all.”
Eugene: “I'm still not seeing how they had a "knowledge (perception, sense)" of something - before they partook of the only tree which had that needed knowledge (as Ray said). ..”
JFK: “Eve sinned before she ate the fruit. She lusted for it, from her heart, when she looked upon it, before she ate.”
Eugene: “I'm still not seeing they had knowledge before they ate of the tree. I found this interesting too...they didnt even KNOW they were naked”
Marques: “Eugene, what is your point? You seem to want to explain your revelations and only want to hear someone agree with you.”
Eugene: “..isnt a "forum discussion" the point to SHARE thoughts? so we cant share thoughts? by all means, judge them and I will learn..”
Dave: “…God doesn't 'allow' evil, or 'turn evil into good', but INTENDS evil FOR good.”
Gina: “Satan tricks (cheated) us with lies, not the truth. And, people can't be "tempted" with the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth..”
Dave : “Let's not get so caught up examining the trees (reading all the words) that we fail to see the forest (Spirit and Life).”
lilitalienboi16: “Unfortunately for adam and eve, even after eating the fruit, they were NOTHING like God. They are / were becoming like God but they were FAR from "BEING AS GOD."
Eugene: “..So didn't the "become" gods according to scripture?”
Gina: “..We're lumps of clay. That's the part Satan left out. He lied by omission.”
lilitalienboi16: “Being a god and being AS GOD are two different things.”
Eugene: “So, when will man have the "knowledge" of good and evil? In the next eon? Or is the next eon for judgment of good and evil?”
lilitalienboi16: “Adam and Eve's understanding of what good and evil was, after having eatin the tree of knowledge of good and evil, hardly equated to the knowledge that God has of these things. Furthermore, this would make satan's statement that IN THAT DAY, they would be as God, a lie.”
Paul Fisher: “Bottom line. Satan used some truth along with a lie to tempt Eve.”
Santgem: “There is no truth in him, Satan. I do believe that it is necessary for Adam and eve to know the good and evil, and that is what God planned!”
Paul Fisher: “Bottom line. Satan's beguiling along with Eve's lusts CAUSED her to break the one commandment and Adam loved his wife and was willing to die for her and so also partook.”
Greg: “Paul according to Rays teachings Adam and Eve did have knowledge.”
Santgem: “Your theory that man would have been happy in the Garden for all eternity if he hadn't eaten of the forbidden fruit is nonsense.”
Kat: “So when the time came for them to move on into the experiences of good and evil (from the world around them) well it was then that Satan entered the picture to draw Eve and Adam with her to the tree of good and evil.”
Gina: “…Christendom likes the fact that God did not give man a fabled free will…”
Arcturus: “How can anyone NOT miss it, being that we are all subject to vainity, and first the natural then the spiritual. So we HAVE to miss it ~ No one can not NOT miss it, for we have all sinned. Eve chose, she chose BOTH, good AND evil that are BOTH in the same fruit.”
lilitalienboi16: “The heart was created exceedingly weak.”
JFK: “…humanity is learning of good and evil by experience, by eating fruit from this tree that combines good and evil---we can't get one without the other…There is so much we don't know.”
Arcturus: “Wisdom is the principle thing…Knowledge is not the principle thing....”
Gina: “Adam surely had knowledge.… they knew a lot.”
Deborah-Leigh:
Excellent minutes of the Meeting dear Scribe of God, JohnCris ~ ;D
Deborah-Leigh:
LOL.... nearly like, Disciple, discipline....
You are quite right John! ~ 8)
The PrincipAl is the CHIEF....as in Wisdom.
The principle is the code, belief, attitude or opinion as in knowledge....
Wisdom is the CHIEF, Knowledge is the Disciple :) even as Christ is the Head!
paulfisher:
Great thread. Bottom line?
Satan lied along with telling some truth to tempt Eve. (Gen 3:4/5) As verse 22 verifies the truth.
("in that day their eyes will be opened" - They were, verse 7. And if their eyes were opened to the knowledge of good and evil that day, they also became as God to know good and evil STARTING THAT DAY. That's the 'some truth' I'm referring to above.)
According to the Scriptures Adam and Eve did NOT have any knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the forbidden fruit.
(I do not say here that Adam and Eve had no knowledge prior to eating the forbidden fruit but that they had NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.)
They had a (one) commandment from God that they broke by eating the forbidden fruit and that was their first sin.
(That is the only sin they were accountable for because at the time not eating of that tree was the only law. "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20. "for where no law is, there is no transgression." Rom 4:15. "For until the law sin WAS in the world:[Of course Ray is correct - sin WAS in the Garden prior to the eating of the forbidden fruit] but sin is not imputed when there is no law." Rom 5:13. "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Rom 7:7. Eve's lusts over the fruit were NOT sins imputed to her but ONLY the sin of breaking the law to not partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.)
Satan's beguiling along with Eve's lusts CAUSED her to break the one commandment [law] and Adam loved his wife and was willing to die for her and so also partook.
Paul
Ps. JohnChris, I can't stop laughing every time I read your post... I hope others here also have a sense of humor...
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