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going to heaven/hell when one dies
Gina:
--- Quote ---I know the Bible does not teach that, but they must use verses and scripture from the Bible to sway them into believing such comforting. ~Micah
--- End quote ---
They do not use scripture backup. This was answered in Eugene's reply: Not one of these five aspects of the Egyptian Underworld has Scriptural backing, yet virtually every one of them has a place in Christian DOCTRINE. ~Ray [emphasis mine]
From Definitions.net:
Doctrine(noun)
teaching, instruction
that which is taught, what is held, put forth AS TRUE [only, it's NOT true!] . . .
Dave in Tenn:
I'm sorry, Gina...but they DO use scripture to back up what isn't true. They use it very poorly, however--contradicting, misquoting, carnally understanding, etc. Many 'preachers' wouldn't know what the Egyptians believed, and if they did, they would see it as "wisdom". Or if they saw it as foolishness, it would be mostly in the details. "We" know better now...when people die, they go to heaven or Hell...if not now, eventually.
Here's some emails on the 'absent from the body/present with the Lord argument:
www.Bible-Truths.com/bible-truths.com/email16.htm#absent
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1736.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3202.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3138.0.html
And from the FAQ concerning 'today thou shalt be with me in paradise':
www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic%2c11614.0.html
Gina:
That's not scripture, then, Dave. That's all I'm saying.
I'm out. But before I leave... he he, Jesus answered and said unto them, You do err, NOT knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Dave in Tenn:
Understood.
newgene87:
Ironically, the 5 concepts from that Egypt story ALL can be pulled from the "Rich Man and Lazarus" Parable and it just caught my eye. I think this is one of the top things the church uses to scare people with hell.
We see that the DEAD are STILL LIVING (Anything is possible in fables). {...and it came to pass, that the beggar died...the rich man also died....and he CRIED and said... cool my tongue..." Luke 16:22, 24 - and continued talking....}
The dead Egyptians had IMMORTAL SOULS. {"...i am tormented in this flame..." Luke 16:24 - yet keeps talking...}
At the time of death, JUDGMENT took place immediately. {"...remember that thou in thy lifetime received thy good thing, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented." Luke 16:25}
Good people were ushered into a place of HAPPINESS at death. {"...the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom..." Luke 16:22}
Bad people were: (a) Sentenced to ROAM AIMLESSLY, (b) were completely ANNIHILATED by being eaten by Ammut, or (c) they could be TORTURED as in fire. {"and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments...I am tormented in this flame...lest they also come into this place of torment."}
So with that, can we really blame the church?? That parable just lays out the blueprint for the afterlife of the bible. I do remember one church using this parable to justify their teaching. besides the fact this is a PARABLE, they still dont even know the true use of a parable. ive also heard them connect "and the smoke of their torment (this was the rich man and any guilty sinner) ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day and night..." Revelation 14:11. Truly, i'm thankful that i finally read Ray's paper explaining the parable, even though its very lengthy -- that parable is the ammo for preachers of hell. and then they throw in, "and these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt 25:46). I feel bad for the followers of these preachers; "blind leading the blind" -- it's sad. Sadly, they CAN use the bible, to their own pleasure as i just did-- THANK GOD FOR BIBLE-TRUTHS.COM!! It may take time, but Ray nails them all :). Obviously there are problems with the translations "ever and ever" and "eternal" for one and interpretations. May we all continue to grow in truth
Eugene
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