144000 vs saints 10000of10000 army

[gregorydc]

So just curious here the 144000 in revelation are the ruling class with Christ right? Then what are the 10000's of his saints that come back to war with Christ? Are these two groups the same? This has been eating at me for a while now. Does Ray teach anything on this? What am I missing here?
Greg

[Gina]

Hi Greg,

From the LOF4:

COMMENT: The type in the New Testament of this Old Testament symbol is the Believer. Notice what James tells us, "Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of His creatures" (James 1:18). Now a very important point: How far down the road in prophecy can we go until we reach the end of the firstfruits? In Rev. 7:4-8 we read of the sealing of the 144,000. These are a different group from the great innumerable multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and tongue spoken of beginning in verse 9.

In Chapter 14:1 & 4 we are told specifically who these 144,000 are: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand [notice that the innumerable multitudes from all nations is not mentioned here] ... These are they which were not defiled with women, for they are virgins [as in the Bride of Christ]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:1 & 4). So every believer from the Apostles to the 144,000 just prior to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on the earth, is called and likened to FIRSTFRUITS! So what does this have to do with the lake of fire? EVERYTHING! Everyone saved before the Day of Judging is likened to firstfruits, so there will be no more firstfruits after the white throne judgment.

( http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html  )

Excerpt from  LOF 8

We abide and dwell in Christ and Christ abides and dwells and lives HIS LIFE in us, so that we will "go no more out," till at the consummations of all the ages, "God may be ALL in All" (I Cor. 15:28).

    "And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."

That's CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God's government for the new world) are given the Father's name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.

New Jerusalem is the heavenly Jerusalem spoken of in Heb. 12:22, where "the general assembly and church of the firstborn [Christ and His anointed body of believers], which are written in heaven" is found. It is from New Jerusalem and heavenly Mt. Sion that the government of Christ will proceed in bringing Salvation to the Earth and the Universe (Isa. 2:2). I will write upon him My new name. This is the same new name that we discussed in the Church of Pergamos.

( http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html )

Ray also talks about 144,000 here:  http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm

What are the 10000s of his saints....

If you wouldn't mind, please go here:  www.biblegateway.com -- and you will find the exact verse you're speaking of and then maybe someone can find where Ray might have spoken on that subject, or if he didn't.

[gregorydc]

The scripture is Jude 1:14 KJV

[Gina]

Jude 1  (I got the following verses from http://bible.cc/jude/1-14.htm -- if you take a look at the verses that this site supplies in addition to the one you're asking about, you might get an answer.  I don't have an answer for you though; and if memory serves me, I don't believe Ray spoke on this matter specifically.  I have made a comment near the verse that you are curious about, below, but please read the entire chapter and see what the surrounding verses have to say.  That might help a little.)

Greeting from Jude

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

2 Mercy unto you, and peace and love, be multiplied.


Contend for the Faith

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was necessary for me to write unto you, and exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


God's Judgment of Ungodly, Arrogant Men

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into licentiousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though you once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels who kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after unnatural lust, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise authority, and speak evil of the glorious ones.

9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil as he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke you.

10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

12 These are spots in your love feasts, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about by winds; trees whose fruit withers, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints, [Some versions say "myriad of his saints" and "thousands and thousands of his saints" ... To do what?] 

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convict all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 

[Greg, From my personal perspective (please don't quote me ) this is happening in my own lifetime.  Know what I'm saying?  I wonder myself -- does Jesus come with all those saints / holy ones at the same Bat time, same Bat date, same Bat Channel; or does the Lord come with those saints IN THEIR HEARTS ALL THROUGH HISTORY IN THESE LAST DAYS OF THE PAST 2000 YEARS AND BEYOND?  I don't know the answer to that.  Great question.  Sorry I couldn't help you.  Keep reading through the chapter and pray for wisdom and maybe God will reveal it to you. I just don't know.]

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaks great swelling words, holding men in admiration for the sake of advantage.



Mockers in the Last Time

17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19 These are they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.


Be Strong in the Love of God

20 But you, beloved, building up yourselves in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And on some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.



Doxology

24 Now unto him who is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.

[Gina]

Daniel 7:10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

Has my "book" been opened?  I'm inclined to think it has been opened...  since judgment begins with the house of God -- judgment is on the house of God now...

I do wonder about these things.  I guess I'll find out one way or another.  (This is not a laughing matter -- I know. But I don't worry anymore because now I  know that God judges the world in a pond.... in manner of safety.  Not in some literal lake of literal fire.)

[G. Driggs]

Found this for ya Greg.

Jude 1:14 "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,

That's us, that's the kingdom.  The kingdom of what?  The Kingdom of the heavens. 

There is the one seed - Christ.  But if you are IN Christ you are Abraham's seed, multiple seed.  But in Christ we are  ONE.

Mat 24:31  And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect (that's us)  from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Then He comes back and that's His army.  He gathers them and He comes back with them and He rules the nations with a rod of iron...US the kingdom of the heavens.

Rev 19:14  And the armies in heaven (that's us on white horses), clothed in fine linen... 

Fine linen that's righteousness - your doing what is right, which far exceeds the Scribes and the Pharisees or you shall in no wise inherit what?  The kingdom of the heavens.  So they've got white linen on, because these people are righteous, they do what is right.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html

[Gina]

That is fantastic.  Thanks G.  I totally forgot about that.