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All is out of God
indianabob:
Good morning folks,
Shouldn't we first define what we mean by EVIL?
Is it a volitional act by one person toward another? Or is it what befalls a person?
When a person drives drunk and strikes another person and injures them it seems to be an evil event caused by sin or disobedience to the law of love. However, if the drunk driver misses the other person and no injury results, is it still evil?
In the instance of God creating evil, what do we mean?
Did God make circumstances such that people could make dangerous, selfish, disobedient choices and did God do that intentionally? If I willingly permit my son to play on dangerous equipment and "evil" befalls him and he suffers injury and pain, is that evil?
I think we need to define terms more carefully. What words in the original scripture were translated as "evil"?
Wondering, Indiana bob
Kat:
Hi Bob, good idea.
Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil (Strong's H7451).
H7451 ra‛: bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]
The best way I know how to explain what evil is, would be the opposite/absents of love. Only God has love in it's absolute/pure/perfect form, He does not only show/express love, His very nature/personality is love.
1John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
Paul did very well in expressing what love is.
1Cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[1] but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
So we are born without knowledge, a clean slate, and this life is a process of experiencing/learning about good and evil, it is teaching us by comparison the difference between them. This knowledge of both good and evil is essential in the process of being shaped into His image.
--- Quote ---Did God make circumstances such that people could make dangerous, selfish, disobedient choices and did God do that intentionally? If I willingly permit my son to play on dangerous equipment and "evil" befalls him and he suffers injury and pain, is that evil?
--- End quote ---
Evil comes from numerous sources and yes by ignorance would be one of them, but sometimes it's intended, and sometimes it's accidental or by mistake. But God created all the circumstances for evil to happen to us, because in this world we are learning/gaining a knowledge through experiences of evil and good, and that is the contrast we need. Quite a lot will end this life with a big accumulation of evil, but that's what the next age is for, to correct and purge people of their wrong characteristics, part of the process. God intends for us all to eventually be brought to the knowledge of truth, through the process we are now in. And the truth of what being in His image is all about, love.
1Tim 2:4 who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
the truth:
Hello,
I believe I remember Ray saying...Evil is only evil depending on whos hands its in.God uses Evil for a divine purpose to take carnality into the image of His Son.Men uses Evil to bring hurt to mankind.So if Evil didnt exists we would never be able to be conformed to the imgaine of His Son.Sorry I didnt have time to look for the reference in Rays teaching.Jerry.
Samson:
--- Quote from: the truth on November 05, 2012, 03:54:00 PM ---Hello,
I believe I remember Ray saying...Evil is only evil depending on whos hands its in.God uses Evil for a divine purpose to take carnality into the image of His Son.Men uses Evil to bring hurt to mankind.So if Evil didnt exists we would never be able to be conformed to the imgaine of His Son.Sorry I didnt have time to look for the reference in Rays teaching.Jerry.
--- End quote ---
Good Answer, that's why I rarely use the the word wicked & evil interchangeably, although they often are. Evil has no moral bias or sense of right or wrong. If someone falls down the steps & hurts themselves, it's an Evil experience, but if someone deliberately pushes them down the steps, a wicked act was committed and an evil experience was attained by the receipient, so it seems that Evil has the broad meaning that includes wickedness caused by another party bringing the moral aspect of it.
Quote from a Thread from January 31, 2011, Topic-No Darkness In God, regarding Greek Words defined regarding Evil & Wicked. Read Below!
Orthodox Bible Scholars seem to Use Evil(Greek- Poneros & Kakos) somewhat interchangeably with Wickedness. That which results from Pain, sorrow, distress can be classified as Evil(Greek-Kakos), but not necessarily Greek-Poneros which is Evil resulting from the wicked act of others. The Hebrew Ra depends on the context in the sense of the purpose or motive behind the Evil Act.
To sum up the distinction between Evil and Wicked when considering God and Humans and the use thereof. When God uses Evil, it's not a wicked malicious act or motive, but has as it's ultimate purpose of Good. When Humans bring Evil upon someone, it's a wicked act and never has the intention of bringing about a good outcome. Unfortunately, in several cases, based on my word research of the Greek words used for Evil & Wicked(Kakos, Poneros & others) when mentioning someone committing an Evil Act, it would probably be better translated as wicked, but they use these words synonymously. Poneros signifies that which is worthless in a physical sense and wicked or evil in a moral sense. Kakos is more related to the results of Evil.
Check that thread out, it might help, Samson.
Joel:
The way I see it, the fact that God uses evil, and man having fiery trials, and tribulations as a part of our journey here on earth during the process of learning about good, and evil. There is a big difference in that, and mankind doing evil, carnal , lustfull deeds.
I knew a preacher a long time ago that taught that when there was only God, that God took the evil that was a part of himself, and made the devil to be the opposing force. That is the first, and only time I ever heard it explained that way.
Joel
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