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chuckusa:
Zander, Longhorn,

I would have to say, based upon my own ups and downs with God....count yourself blessed that you are having "troubles" understanding your relationships with him. There is nothing worse than someone who truly believes they have it all figured out. The depths of truth are DEEP, and I believe you know that.

Perhaps it is something else.

I no longer mince words. I wasted so much of my life acting as if God had "let me down" somehow. In reality it was I, who had let HIM down.

The problem is with you, not a weak and uncaring God. There was a time in my life when I would have said that God MUST hate me, he must like seeing me suffer and feel unfullfilled and confused.

God suffers with us. In the fury of his cleansing fire I felt like he had left me for dead. When the smoke cleared, and I awoke, I realized that he had been standing in the shadows all the time with his arms open for me, but it was up to ME to accept his love. As Ray says, we have no free will when it comes to being called or chosen, but I believe we CAN reject his love. I know I did.

Don't reject his love. Talk more about how you feel.

I say, question,question,question....EVERYTHING. Most of all, YOUR attitude.

Now don't get angry at me, write and lets talk. I'll bet there are quite a few who have "been there, done that" on this site.

Hope to see more posts from you! Don't slip beyond the horizon, stay in the LIGHT!

May God bless you, always.
Chuck

chumkin:
Zander, and all.

count it all joy.

we are not left nor forsaken, our feet get dirty in this world.

its not an easy walk its not suppose to be.

peace and grace to you all.

 
2Ti 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come


Chalepos None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khal-ep-os'      Adjective 
 
 Definition
hard to do, to take, to approach
hard to bear, troublesome, dangerous
harsh, fierce, savage
 



i say this with all sincerity:

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. ;)



do NOT let whats going on around you cause your love to wax cold, its not for YOU.

you are LOVED.


 grace and peace
 chuckt

MG:
My whole life has been one of suffering.
It is through suffering that I learn the great mysteries of God.

God's character has been attacked within me in every way possible. I've learned not to listen. When I believe in God's character in spite of what is going on around me I see God's character shine through. We walk by faith. Not by sight. We enter in by faith.

Not my will, but his will be done. Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him...

Hebrews 4
 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

hillsbororiver:
Very good stuff Chuckusa, Chumkin & MG,

It was not always the case with me but now I have real empathy for those who hurt, struggle and mourn, even when I see someone behind the register at a convenience store or a Day Laborer at one of our jobsites that has obviously had a rough going in life it hits me when before I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Yes, I have had my trials and tribulations, still do, but I can always find another person who is going through something worse or at least I perceive it as being worse, we can never really know what is going on in those other universes which are our brethren's minds here in this life.

We all have a unique relationship with Him, we are alone yet He is with us, we are together with family, friends or here in the Forum, yet we are alone with Him, we are a part of the Body of Christ but our walk is alone with Him, our relationship with Him is One on one, He is forming us into a totally unique creation for His purpose to be utilized as He sees fit even here in this life but especially preparing us for the next age when we will rule with Him and share in His glory. That would sound like a vain hope to some but it is actually very humbling, to even consider being a Son of God after living much of my life as a miserable selfish wretch is almost incomprehensible, but with Him all things are possible.

Zander and Longhorn please consider what others here have written, pray for understanding, talk to our Lord as the best Friend you ever had, He will hear you.

I pasted another relevent piece from Ray's Lake of Fire series, this portion is from Part III;

THE BELIEVER’S JUDGMENT BY FIRE

Well, yes, it does appear that there is a judgment on the house of God, but certainly not a judgment by FIRE, is there? Doesn’t God judge non-believers with fire, but not believers? This only sounds strange to you if you have never been taught the Scriptures.

"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).

Peter makes it sound as though going through fiery trails is the norm rather than the exception. The New Testament is filled with the fiery trials of the Saints.

Now I hope that none will be offended at my next few statements, but if so, so be it. Unless God Almighty through the purging power of His FIERY SPIRIT, is BURNING OUT the lusts and passions and vanity and haughtiness and greed and self-righteousness and laziness and weakness and hypocrisy and wickedness and pride and materialism and cynicism and depravity and carnality in your life, then Jesus Christ is not choosing you to reign with Him as the Sons of God in the Kingdom of God to bring all Heaven and Earth to repentance and salvation!

And I will tell you on the authority of Jesus Christ and all the Holy Scriptures, that anyone who teaches and takes delight in thinking that God would ever torture anyone for all eternity, will NEVER BE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITH SUCH AN ATTITUDE!

Such damnable character flaws of the mind and spirit are going to be burned out of us all! God will either BURN OUT these filthy impurities from our hearts and minds NOW, or He will BURN THEM OUT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, but either way, make no mistake about it, THESE THINGS ARE COMING OUT!!!

JOHN THE BAPTIST: John the Baptist said that Jesus would be baptizing repentant believers with fire.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).

JESUS CHRIST:

"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

APOSTLE PETER:

"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

APOSTLE PAUL:

"Every man’s work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).

With such noble and august witnesses, does anyone deny that the repentant, converted, dedicated, believing Christian will escape being "revealed," tried," "salted," and "baptized" by FIRE? These Scriptures are undeniable! Whatever this "fire" is, it is going to be used ON EVERYONE. These four Scriptures have the believer specifically in view, but it says and includes "EVERYONE shall be salted with FIRE," and "EVERY MAN’S WORK ... shall be revealed by FIRE."

And there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE when it comes to the non-believers:

"And I saw a great white throne ... And I saw the dead...and the dead were JUDGED ... according to their WORKS ... and they were judged EVERY MAN according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:11-13).

And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "... In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE ..." (Rev. 21:8)!

Is this "fire" in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word "fire" used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word "fire" used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers:

STRONG’s Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, page 219, #4442, pur; a primary word; "fire" (literally OR FIGURATIVELY. Pur is used (besides its ordinary natural significance):

(1) of the holiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistent therewith, Heb. 10:27; 12:29; cf. Rev. 1:14; 2:18; 10:1; 15:2; 19:12;

(1a) similarly of the holy angels as His ministers, Heb. 1:7;

(1b) in Rev. 3:18 it is SYMBOLIC of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD;

(2) of the divine judgment, testing the deeds of believers, at the judgment seat of Christ I Cor. 3:13 and 15;

(3) of the fire of DIVINE JUDGMENT upon the REJECTERS of Christ, Matt. 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the holy Spirit at Pentecost and the "fire" of divine retribution; Acts 2:3 could not refer to baptism); Lk. 3:16."

End of quotation, (All CAPS emphasis are mine).

I was quite amazed to see this broadened definition in Strong’s Concordance. In my Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance that I purchased over forty years ago, it has but one line after the Greek word pur. It states that pur is "fire" either (literal or figurative), fiery, lightning. That’s it. So when I purchased the NEW Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible last week, I was pleasantly surprised to see the expanded definitions, especially with reference to this word "pur" -- FIRE. I learned the use of the word "fire" in Scripture the hard way -- I had to research.

We could easily spend twenty pages just commenting on the examples used in this expanded version of Strong’s. I won’t do that, but let’s take a brief look at a few enlightening items: First, we learn that this word can and is used "figuratively." And in fact, the first five examples given in Strong’s ARE examples of figurative usage of the word fire. And of the 500+ times the word 'fire' is used in the Bible, hundreds of times the word 'fire' is used in a figurative or symbolic sense.

I call your attention to statement Strong’s (1b) "In Rev. 3:18 it [fire] is SYMBOLIC, of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD"! (CAPS emphasis mine).

I just love it when Christian Scholars will occasionally just absolutely "nail" a Scriptural Truth. Notice this beautiful and profound Scriptural Truth: The symbolic fire of Rev. 3:18 tries the faith of the saints, and PRODUCES what will GLORIFY THE LORD! ASTOUNDING!

Carefully note that it is not the "believer" who "produces" these glorious things, but it is the "SYMBOLIC FIRE" that produces them. And just Who is this "symbolic fire?" It is, of course, GOD -- "For OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE." (Heb. 12:29)!

Therefore it is GOD who "PRODUCES" qualities in the saints that will GLORIFY HIMSELF! God’s consuming SPIRITUAL fire (remember that "GOD IS SPIRIT" Jn. 4:24) does the "producing," not the saint,

"For HIS ACHIEVEMENT are we, being created in Christ Jesus ..." (Eph. 2:10).

"Now what have you which you did not OBTAIN? Now if you OBTAINED it also [from GOD] why are you boasting as though [you are] not obtaining [it from God]?" (I Cor. 4:7 Concordant Literal New Testament).

"All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).

"The One Who is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of HIS will" (Eph. 1:11).

This article can be read in its entirety @;

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html

ned:
Joe, thank you for posting that excerpt...VERY EXCELLENT!

Zander and Longhorn,
I will pray that you will both put GOD in the proper perspective in your life.

Someone posted on a different thread to read all of Leviticus 26 (which I recently did), can I suggest this chapter may be revealing to you both right now? Pray for God's guidance before you read, here is a sample:
Lev26:3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; .....(vs9) I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you."

The Lord is faithful in keeping his promises.  Like everyone else is posting here, it's just getting over the FIERY trials that are necessary to bring you into his LOVE.

One day at a time...
Mat6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Please don't lose faith.

In His Name,
Marie

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