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Author Topic: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26  (Read 13445 times)

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eggi

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2012, 06:34:42 PM »


So, not GIVEN in marriage, but GIVING.

Luke 17:28 gives us more information, but non of these things are sins, are they? The verse mentions nothing about "given in marriage":
"Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;"

This, in my opinion, supports what Dave said: "Business as usual".


but if this is just "Business as usual", simply saying "they married" is good enough to make the point, no need to say "given/giving in marriage", right?

Hi zvezda,

I was referring to Luke 17:28, although you are right; it IS connected to verse 27. :) But verse 28 is referring to the days of Lot and it doesn't mention anything about being given in marriage. That was my point, there is nothing in that verse that hasn't been done throughout history. Or am I wrong?

God bless you,
Eirik
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eggi

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 06:52:58 PM »

Nice, thanks Eirik. But I meant if the Greek word/suffix/etc used for they has any gender conotation.

Hi Levy,
Yeah, I know that's what you meant. I wasn't able to find any information on the gender of it. It seems that Greek doesn't have the gender in the plural, but I've been wrong before, and I could be wrong about this too! :)

This is from the Concordant Interlinear:

exegamizonto
exegamizonto
G1547
vi Impf Pas 3 Pl
THEY-OUT-MARRYizED
they-gave-in-marriage

I think what makes it more complicated here is that this is a verb... and the fact that this is Greek to me...! :P

God bless you,
Eirik
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zvezda

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 06:54:55 PM »

Mat 22:30   For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

God refers to the angels as male only, something to think about....

How do you know God only refers to them as male only?

it was briefly discussed before, see http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3899.20
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zvezda

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2012, 07:07:36 PM »


So, not GIVEN in marriage, but GIVING.

Luke 17:28 gives us more information, but non of these things are sins, are they? The verse mentions nothing about "given in marriage":
"Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;"

This, in my opinion, supports what Dave said: "Business as usual".


but if this is just "Business as usual", simply saying "they married" is good enough to make the point, no need to say "given/giving in marriage", right?

Hi zvezda,

I was referring to Luke 17:28, although you are right; it IS connected to verse 27. :) But verse 28 is referring to the days of Lot and it doesn't mention anything about being given in marriage. That was my point, there is nothing in that verse that hasn't been done throughout history. Or am I wrong?

God bless you,
Eirik

Hi Erik, no, you are not wrong, I think I misquoted your post, sorry  :P
I was just trying to say that it doesn't matter if the translation should be GIVEN or GIVING in marriage,  simply saying they married should be good enough.  :)
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eggi

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2012, 07:24:36 PM »

Hi Erik, no, you are not wrong, I think I misquoted your post, sorry  :P
I was just trying to say that it doesn't matter if the translation should be GIVEN or GIVING in marriage,  simply saying they married should be good enough.  :)

Hi again zvezda,

It should be enough if you want to be saying: "They" (men and women) married." But can we rule out the possibility that it's referring to men first, and then women? "They (the men) married, and they (the women) were given in marriage."

The same wording appears in Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25 and Luke 20:34-35. In those verses it seems to refer to men first and then women. Or does it say that the standard is that both women and men are marrying and being giving in marriage? What then about what Jesus says in Luke 20:34?:

And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage...[]

The sons refer only to men? Or to men and women? Who marries and who are given in marriage?

I'm not sure, just trying to think out loud, since this subject caught my attention for some reason. Well I'm out of ideas. :)

God bless you,
Eirik
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levycarneiro

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2012, 07:25:26 PM »

Mat 22:30   For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

God refers to the angels as male only, something to think about....

How do you know God only refers to them as male only?

it was briefly discussed before, see http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3899.20

Hey, thanks! I will check it out.

God bless
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levycarneiro

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2012, 07:30:21 PM »

Nice, thanks Eirik. But I meant if the Greek word/suffix/etc used for they has any gender conotation.

Hi Levy,
Yeah, I know that's what you meant. I wasn't able to find any information on the gender of it. It seems that Greek doesn't have the gender in the plural, but I've been wrong before, and I could be wrong about this too! :)

This is from the Concordant Interlinear:

exegamizonto
exegamizonto
G1547
vi Impf Pas 3 Pl
THEY-OUT-MARRYizED
they-gave-in-marriage

I think what makes it more complicated here is that this is a verb... and the fact that this is Greek to me...! :P

God bless you,
Eirik

Hehe thanks man

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zvezda

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2012, 08:25:45 PM »

Hi again zvezda,

It should be enough if you want to be saying: "They" (men and women) married." But can we rule out the possibility that it's referring to men first, and then women? "They (the men) married, and they (the women) were given in marriage."

Hi Erik, both are possible, just that if this verse is trying to say "business as usual", why did God choose the cumbersome way to describe it while He could simply say "they married"? I guess we just don't know for sure.  :P

Quote
The same wording appears in Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25 and Luke 20:34-35. In those verses it seems to refer to men first and then women. Or does it say that the standard is that both women and men are marrying and being giving in marriage?

see my previous post, God refers to the angels as male only, just something to think about.

Quote
What then about what Jesus says in Luke 20:34?:

And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage...[]

The sons refer only to men? Or to men and women? Who marries and who are given in marriage?


the word "sons" (huios) does refer to men:

huios: a son
Original Word: υἱός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: huios
Phonetic Spelling: (hwee-os')
Short Definition: a son, descendent
Definition: a son, descendent.

Quote
Well I'm out of ideas. :)

me too  :P  ;D
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indianabob

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Re: **As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2012, 11:08:28 AM »

Hi folks,

Couple of small points to consider;
1. They were marrying: young persons were being officially joined together as couples.
2. and giving in marriage: parents were giving, giving permission or giving their blessings or making long term or property contracts between families involving their children etc. all according to the existing culture.

All these normal things were being done in normal fashion with no thought by the people of any type of catastrophe coming upon the society because there was no warning.

Now contrast this with what God did in Nineveh where He sent Jonah to warn the leaders and the people to repent and they did repent out of fear of God's wrath.

Who is to say that Sodom was worse than Nineveh? What is the overarching lesson?

Aren't these just examples for the benefit of those upon whom the end times shall come?
As well as lessons for the Israelites concerning how God deals with sin?

A main point may be that this all happened in the area where God's chosen people were living. Doesn't Bible history necessarily relate to God dealing with His chosen and aren't there multiple other events that take place in history that are not recorded in scripture expressly because they do not relate to God's chosen?

I think it reasonable to believe that there were other natural catastrophes such as earthquakes and floods that didn't directly affect God's people or provide a lesson to them.

Hope this helps a little, Indiana bob
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2012, 12:56:03 PM »

As I recall our conversation was about the tribulations in the end time and also what seems to be a normal lifestyle with getting married, etc. How can both be true at the same time? Ray never told me if he figured it out.

But it could be that these normal lifestyles continue up until the tribulations begin?

Or it could be that "given in marriage" describes the lifestyles in the end time?

Don't know.
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zee325

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2012, 02:56:30 PM »

The use of language may seem a little odd for an English speaker, but for my language it is not a problem at all. In Chinese, we have different words for man getting married, and woman getting married. Not saying this was the case with the original language Jesus used though because I don't know.

Ray: TRUTH NUMBER 8

    (A) "Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION [to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty, etc.], upon whom the ends of the world [‘eons—ages’] are come" (I Cor. 10:11).

    (B) "Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted" (I Cor. 10:6).

    (C) "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for OUR LEARNING…" (Rom. 15:4).

To me it sounded like Jesus was saying everyone going on with business as usual, not knowing the coming of judgment and the Lord (like Lot and Noah).

1Th 5:2  For you yourselves know accurately that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3  For when they shall say, Peace and safety! Then sudden destruction comes on them, as travail upon a woman with child. And they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4  But you, brothers, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.
1Th 5:5  You are all the sons of light and the sons of the day. We are not of the night, or of darkness.
1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep as the rest do, but let us watch and be calm.
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Samson

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2012, 07:35:17 PM »



Just a thought in general, those verses in Matthew. 24:37-39, in particular verse 39 seems to indicate to Me that events in general were what's perceived as "Normal" everyday affairs like Marrying & being given in Marriage, like the custom of Men giving their Daughters in Marriage, giving away the Bride, so to speak. I mention Verse 39, because it says they "knew not" UNTIL the Flood came and swept them all away. Nothing seemed to be happening out of the ordinary to most People, just like Today, that would convince them of their End, sorta like Today. Most of the "Christian" believers of the many & varied Denominations still, at least officially, would not look upon Homosexual Marriages as the Normal everyday affairs of People, so they "knew not" or one Translation uses the phrase: "They took no note," UNTIL the flood came & swept them all away, seems to indicate to Me, that a high percentage of People wouldn't be fooled by Gay Marriage, because they wouldn't consider that as being the usual or "Normal" everyday practices, so as to be fooled or "knowing not" until it was too late.

Applying this to Gay Marriage, IE- Given in Marriage is an interesting take on the passage, but only seems plausible through implication, but doesn't seem explicitly clear in examining the passages from Matt. 24 and Luke. 17.

Just My Take, Samson.
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the truth

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2012, 08:19:34 PM »

Hello,

I would say were there is other writings that would help clear this up.We do at times gain understanding through such things as the book of Josephus or .Fox's book of martys and etc..Of course the only truth I know comes through the Holy Scripture!!!!However I think we can deduce as Ray said some things from the Scripture that will help us understand.

1.Are men ever given in marriage?
2.What was the biblical process in the Scripture that men came to take a wife?
3.Read...Gen 19-1-11......Could it be that Lot had some understanding already about what happens when immortality and mortality  break the law of the creator and produce NOT after its on seed?.
4. Could this be why God allowed only Noah seed to remain through the flood because it was the only seed not corrupted?
5.Not only do i believe this to be true Gina I also believe as it says in the Scripture..."When they say peace and safety"the time is near.IS that not what everyone is saying since 911..
6. God proclaims us to be children of light not of darkness!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 08:25:48 PM by the truth »
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Joel

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2012, 12:07:35 AM »

The scriptures show that after so much evil, and wickedness is fulfilled, God will do something that makes things anew.
Before the flood the wickedness of man was great in the earth so God brought about destruction, and started fresh with the family of Noah who "found grace in the eyes of the Lord." Genesis 6:5

God made the promise to Abraham to multiply his seed in the earth just before he brought destruction upon Sodom, and Gomorrah. Genesis 18,19
In the book of Revelations after all the plagues, and destruction, God brings in a new heaven, and a new earth where God dwells with man. Revelations 21
Peter said in second Peter 3, that there would be people saying " Where is the sign of his coming? and all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
God shows a parallel in Ezekiel 16 that lets us know what the state of things in Sodom were, as well as Israel, and the surrounding lands. Not unlike the state of the world , the flesh, and the devil, in our day.
Ezekiel 49:Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she st renthen the hand of the needy.
50: And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

No doubt the times of the gentiles will be fulfilled at Gods set time, and could be similar to the amount of time that God suffered with Israel before Jesus came the first time.

Joel
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Ian 155

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2012, 06:18:32 AM »

mmm "As in the days before the flood" is this a literal flood Jesus is speaking of ? will not the Lord Flood the world with his spirit "I will pour out my spirit on all flesh" Acts 2:7 - Joel 2: 28

Havn't gays been around forever ? perhaps this is the/a time when all eyes would be opened by the flood of Gods outpoured spirit

even worse perhaps the weepers and wailers could be us, seems our minds are looking at / to, signs in the earth and not in the word,

just thinkin aloud

 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 01:32:57 PM by Dennis Vogel »
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cjwood

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2012, 06:32:01 PM »

last night i spent several hours rereading the Scriptures pertaining to noah and lot.  i believe that in luke 17:27-28 "they" is speaking specifically about the peoples of the areas where noah and lot resided.  when i followed the reference Scriptures given in the margins of my study bibles, it becomes apparent that the peoples were exceedingly wicked (sexual sin with others of the same gender, fornication everywhere including with animals, etc, etc.), and it is "they" whom Jesus was referring to.  when you read in detail and study where it leads in the Scriptures, the statements by Jesus become pretty matter of fact.  people in the generation when the Son of God is revealed to the whole world, will be going along business as usual, including marrying and being given in marriage.

i believe we might be trying to focus in on the "they were given in marriage" more than the actual situation Christ Jesus was describing.  i.e. it is really more simple than we are trying to make it out to be.

yes, the men in sodom wanted to "know" (have sex) with the 2 angels that lot had taken in for the night, and i am sure that wickedness was a stinch to God's nostrils.  but i don't believe that was what Jesus was referring to when He said "they" were given in marriage.

this topic had been on my mind since gina started the thread. 

claudia
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Ian 155

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2012, 07:48:56 AM »

yep Claudia, you're right, this does deviate slightly from Gina's initial point [which btw im still not getting, Gina always speaks above my particular fireplace] saying that,the easy to read version states,folks are marrying and giving their children to be married.

Could it be that simple ?



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Revilonivek

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2012, 07:33:38 PM »

Quote
they married, they were given in marriage

Should have added it was both these sentences that made Ray suspect something. The first sentence should be enough to make a simple point.

Maybe Scripture meant to say- males married, females were given in marriage? I think If they wanted to say homosexuals were marrying, they would have made it clear like they did many times in scriptures when talking about homosexuals? I don't think they were talking abt homosexuals specifically. We know when a marriage occurs, a female must be given away to be married to a male. You don't say, male are given in marriage but you say Mr. Smith married Ms Kathy Spelling of atlantis. another example, Ms.Kathy Spelling, from Halewind, London, were given in marriage to mr. Kenneth Smith on March 23, 2016. You get the idea?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:40:01 PM by Revilonivek »
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2012, 08:31:42 PM »

We really can't say any of this for certain unless we know what that figure of speech meant 2000 years ago.
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cjwood

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2012, 04:10:59 PM »


We really can't say any of this for certain unless we know what that figure of speech meant 2000 years ago.



after reading dennis' post above, i decided to go to the Scriptures to see if the phrase "they were given in marriage" had appeared before.  the word marriage in luke 17:27 is "gamisko" in the greek.  it means to espouse a daughter to a husband.  that same word is used in mark 12:25 where Jesus was answering the sadducees as to what happens upon resurrection for a woman who marries her deceased husband's brothers, and whose wife she would then be.  Jesus' reply in verse 25 of mark 12 was, "for when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."

in matthew 22:30 and 24:38, and 1 cor. 7:38 the word marriage is "ekgamizo" which means to marry off a daughter/to give in marriage/of giving a daughter in marriage and is in the family of "gamisko" the word for marriage in luke 17:27.

matt. 22:30 is the same story being portrayed as in mark 12:25 regarding marriage upon resurrection.  matt. 24:38 is where Jesus is answering the disciples upon the mount of olives, when they asked Him to tell them what shall be the sign of His coming again.

matt. 24:38 - "for as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that noah entered into the ark."

1 cor. 7:38 - "so then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better."

i know i could be wrong on this matter, but it appears after further study of the Scriptures, that the phrase "they were given in marriage" in luke 17:27 is a phrase that was well known and used 2000 years ago, and it was referring to a woman being given in marriage to a man. 

claudia
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 07:50:35 PM by cjwood »
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