> General Discussions
Did God forsake His Son in His last moments?
thewatchman:
--- Quote from: Kat on February 24, 2013, 07:27:58 AM ---
Hi thewatchman,
I think of it like this, the Father and Son are in perfect Oneness with each other in Spirit and Mind. We will always know Jesus Christ as a figure that has the highest position in/of this creation, only the Father exceeds Him. But Jesus being in the perfect 'image' of the Father does not make Him the Father, can't be, because the Father is His source of power. Another thing is whatever the Father has learned or developed or whatever before this creation, Jesus Christ was not there from eternity. The Father is eternal and Jesus Christ is not, so Jesus does not have all the background experience (whatever that might be) that the Father does. Jesus Christ recognizes the Father as His God. So there is a difference in them.
Gina, let me just add another thought. Jesus was suffering intensely from all He had been through, He was at the point of death and was ready to proceed to that... He was making a rhetorical comment to His Father, I think He was saying why am I lingering, why won't you just finish this for My sake (all the sufferings He was enduring). So He was not saying why have You forsaken/left/abandon Me... He just wanted the suffering to end and was asking the Father to carry this on through and He (the Father) certainly heard Him and did end it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
I don't agree Kat. I think that misunderstands the relationship. I believe that Jesus created it all. God is spirit and the power he used to do it. He was there from before the beginning. NOT a lesser carbon copy. But Psalms calls him prince of peace AND everlasting father.....certainly the only father we have ever seen
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: thewatchman on February 24, 2013, 07:22:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on February 24, 2013, 07:27:58 AM ---
Hi thewatchman,
I think of it like this, the Father and Son are in perfect Oneness with each other in Spirit and Mind. We will always know Jesus Christ as a figure that has the highest position in/of this creation, only the Father exceeds Him. But Jesus being in the perfect 'image' of the Father does not make Him the Father, can't be, because the Father is His source of power. Another thing is whatever the Father has learned or developed or whatever before this creation, Jesus Christ was not there from eternity. The Father is eternal and Jesus Christ is not, so Jesus does not have all the background experience (whatever that might be) that the Father does. Jesus Christ recognizes the Father as His God. So there is a difference in them.
Gina, let me just add another thought. Jesus was suffering intensely from all He had been through, He was at the point of death and was ready to proceed to that... He was making a rhetorical comment to His Father, I think He was saying why am I lingering, why won't you just finish this for My sake (all the sufferings He was enduring). So He was not saying why have You forsaken/left/abandon Me... He just wanted the suffering to end and was asking the Father to carry this on through and He (the Father) certainly heard Him and did end it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
I don't agree Kat. I think that misunderstands the relationship. I believe that Jesus created it all. God is spirit and the power he used to do it. He was there from before the beginning. NOT a lesser carbon copy. But Psalms calls him prince of peace AND everlasting father.....certainly the only father we have ever seen
--- End quote ---
I wasn't following the exchange between you and kat very well watchman but do you believe that Jesus is the Father? Jesus is His own Father?
Ian 155:
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God .....
thewatchman:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on February 25, 2013, 12:08:07 AM ---
--- Quote from: thewatchman on February 24, 2013, 07:22:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on February 24, 2013, 07:27:58 AM ---
Hi thewatchman,
I think of it like this, the Father and Son are in perfect Oneness with each other in Spirit and Mind. We will always know Jesus Christ as a figure that has the highest position in/of this creation, only the Father exceeds Him. But Jesus being in the perfect 'image' of the Father does not make Him the Father, can't be, because the Father is His source of power. Another thing is whatever the Father has learned or developed or whatever before this creation, Jesus Christ was not there from eternity. The Father is eternal and Jesus Christ is not, so Jesus does not have all the background experience (whatever that might be) that the Father does. Jesus Christ recognizes the Father as His God. So there is a difference in them.
Gina, let me just add another thought. Jesus was suffering intensely from all He had been through, He was at the point of death and was ready to proceed to that... He was making a rhetorical comment to His Father, I think He was saying why am I lingering, why won't you just finish this for My sake (all the sufferings He was enduring). So He was not saying why have You forsaken/left/abandon Me... He just wanted the suffering to end and was asking the Father to carry this on through and He (the Father) certainly heard Him and did end it.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
I don't agree Kat. I think that misunderstands the relationship. I believe that Jesus created it all. God is spirit and the power he used to do it. He was there from before the beginning. NOT a lesser carbon copy. But Psalms calls him prince of peace AND everlasting father.....certainly the only father we have ever seen
--- End quote ---
I wasn't following the exchange between you and kat very well watchman but do you believe that Jesus is the Father? Jesus is His own Father?
--- End quote ---
No I don't. I believe that the only father we have seen in this dispensation of creation has been Jesus. But if he and the Father are one then why do we try to understand his relationship with his father like birthing a son in our way/ If God IS spirit, then this is not possible. That is just small and finite thinking. Everything was created through Jesus. If he has a father outside of time then we will never comprehend that relationship. But as far as Fathership and we are concerned. He is our father and that's all we need concern ourselves with.
dave:
I do not quite understand the "my God, my God," in Matt. and Mark but I believe I understand those words coming from David wondering why God seemed not present at that time.
Jesus was prophesying those words from David to those around Him, they could not see that He was their God and He spoke "why have you(those there,) why have you forsaken me."
At least in that way I can understand, maybe. Where I never understood that verse at all before.
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