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what did Christ die for ?
Rex8:
--- Quote from: darren on March 09, 2013, 02:36:43 AM ---..... does anyone has scripture that tells Jesus died so we can have his seed to be spread through humanity, Jesus died so God can show us how much He loves us. could be wrong but i dint think so. Jesus was the Lame to be sacerficed to pay the penalty for mankind sins. the payment for sin is death. our carnal spirit could never be one WI the Holy Spirit spirit. the many that are called would never understand Scripture, therefore some humans would never become the few. sorry got carried away. sin is why Jesus died. we would never know The Lord God if the payment was paid. i could b wrong. Wouldn't b the first or the last time I'm wrong
--- End quote ---
....this a direct quote from Ray
"... God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them."
You decide which is correct.
Matt 16:21 “From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.”
Luke 24:6-8 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, "saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'"And they remembered His words.
John 11:49-51 And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, "nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation”
Galatians3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He said not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of ONE, And to your SEED which is CHRIST
John1:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Luke 8:11Now the parable is this: The SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD
John12:24Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it stays alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.
Dave in Tenn:
I hope you don't see those things as mutually exclusive. To say something 'must happen' does not explain the reason it 'must happen'. The reason it must happen is to demonstrate His love for us.
We've wandered away from the OP, and have tried to explain the assumptions raised in her question. Is there anything to add to that?
Rex8:
yes...I did agree Yahshua did die for all because he Loves us however he did not die "for no other reason" or "he did not have to die" is not The Truth and nothing but The Truth,...Yahshua died for what he said in John 24...because Yahshua is the Seed that MUST die to produce much fruit.
Dave in Tenn:
1Jn 3:16 (CLV) By this we know love, seeing that He, for our sakes, lays down His soul. We also ought to lay down our souls for the sake of the brethren.
Doesn't that pull it together (and also help with the OP?)?
All I can add is that I see no contradiction. If you do, I'm at a loss. Ray isn't here to take 'disagreement' to personally, or for comment or clarification, as we required in the past. And I'm not smart enough to completely explain why I can believe both the 'must' and the 'underlying reason' (as well as the result) of His death...Love.
Maybe others are.
eagle:
--- Quote ---Maybe others are.
--- End quote ---
I believe I am :)
Could it be that Jesus is not talking about himself, when he says:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Could it be, that it´s a parable about the called and the chosen :)
"Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone"
( the called)
"but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit" (the chosen/elect)
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