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Author Topic: God frames evil  (Read 2636 times)

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dodrill

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God frames evil
« on: July 09, 2013, 07:00:08 PM »

God frames evil - I always think about this - I know freewill is phantom - and I have been blessed to see that the good Samaritan is the chosen or elect - what I love hearing from Ray expounding on his understanding of the scripture / end time - any time is it is all ONE - a great big parable - and the way we treat humanity is the way we treat Christ - I feel without sounding political is who is the modern day Samaritan? I get socially moved - and there are many forums out there who voice - nay actually solve the problem - am I living in a parallel universe or are we so blessed now to see God's judgments in the world? When He teaches us His righteousness?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 09:01:36 PM by hayley »
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Pierdut

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 11:24:22 PM »

Christians don't believe that God creates evil. They believe that evil just exists and God is powerless to do anything about it. He would prefer it didn't exist, but man's and "almighty" Satan's "free will" cause it to exist, and God can't go against man's "free will." So there's nothing He can do, but send most of His own creation to "hell" where the even more evil demons get to torture them for all eternity [according to Bill Weise, who's been there].

This doctrine of "free will" demeans God, and takes away His Sovereignty, and they have yet to logically [I ask too much, I know] explain how man is free to have a multitude of possibilities in the future when God already knows which way each scenario will turn out?

If mankind had a "free will" then wouldn't homosexuals be able to simply make themselves no longer be attracted to other men, and be attracted only to women? Since nothing causes us to think the thoughts we think, to do the things we do, or that we for whatever reason wish to no longer do?

I am straight and attracted only to women [very attracted to women] I can't make myself no longer be attracted to women and chose to live a life of a eunuch. I can't just make these desires go away. But if I had a "free will," then there would be nothing causing me to be attracted to women, to have these desires - I'd be a le to shut them out completely. At least for a time, to prove I have a "free will," and do what I want. Hell, maybe I'd substitute women with men, since there's nothing causing me to not do such things - I have "free will," right?

"Wrong, pale face." I Have no such thing.

There are certain things I cannot make myself do, and other things I cannot make myself not do, or no longer desire. I can't see a beautiful woman and not lust after her. I know its wrong - but I can't help it, it's automatic.

So much for " free will."

Christians never really ponder these things, their minds are incapable of such ponderings. And they continue to believe in it, and their takeaway is always: " Yeah but we make our own choices, therefore we have free will." They will never get that "free will" is not the ability to male choices, but the ability to make UNCAUSED CHOICES. Choices that aren't determined by anything. Thus a homosexual could "free will" himself into being straight, and a straight man can "free will" himself into being gay any time he wants to; there's nothing stopping either from doing so. Except that reality says otherwise.

This whole thing of "free will" and events in my life that have happened,  and even thinking about future events that have yet to happen, as one of the things that really interests me and was one of the things that got me to start thinking about God again. Could my life have been any different?  Could relationships that went horrible bad have gone otherwise, and I'd still ne with that person - maybe even have a child by now?

If there's ni God, then I can see that possibility. But if there is a God, and He knows the end from the beginning,  and He is not only Sovereign, but the very Creator of life... then how could I have already brought a child into this world? Did God not know of him or her? And if He did, then why didn't it come to pass?

Since I was born; and the only way that could have happened was if my parents got together [they were married] then how could it have been possible for them not to marry each other? God already knew me from the foundation of the world; I had to be born, and at the preappointed time. But if my parents had "free will," and life's events aren't predetermined then they could have ended up marrying other people, and I would never have been born. But if that's the case then there is no God. And my birth was just a random north completely by chance. I won the spermicidal lotto.

I apologize if that's offensive,  but isn't that what "free will" entails, and in fact even demands? 

Like I said, I'm here to talk about tbw type of things that I can't talk about with my Christian family, because it's an excercise in futility. They want their "free will" and they want it now. They can't explain how it works, and how you can still have a Sovereign God who knows the future if man has a "free will" and can make uncaused choices and future events have mutliple possibilities - even contrary to God's foreknowledge. He thinks it will go this way, but that pesty "free will" got in the way, and God wasn't quite sure how it will play out because the people in question chose to do differently then God thought they would do. Can't really ever be sure when choices have no cause which way a man or woman will choose.

God thought They Would get married, and 3 years later have a daughter named [whatever] but nope they broke up... They just decided to... no reason.  Remember,  they make uncaused choices... they have free will.



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Pierdut

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 11:46:07 PM »

Just realized how many typos I have in my previous post. I really need a computer. This auto-correct on my Android isn't helping me one bit.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 03:13:53 AM »

I'm not really understanding the question.

Sometimes I feel like the Samaritan, sometimes I feel like the Pharisee, and sometimes I feel like the robbed and injured man. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Craig

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 09:40:46 AM »

Haley, just my opinion, but I believe the second.

Craig
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dodrill

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 10:08:32 AM »

That I live in a parallel universe?  ;D Craig - I'm making no sense - what I was trying to say is - change is everywhere - never seen times like these - social upheaval - call for accountability - banking scams exposed - you get what I am trying to say dear brother
Are these not God's judgments in the world now? I don't know - I guess I still have some church indoctrination to burn out and too many movies on rewind in my head  :-[
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 05:13:42 AM »

Maybe I'm just getting old, but it seems to me every generation goes through something like this...change the location, change the details, but the state of humanity rises and falls like the ocean waves through troughs of deep evil and crests of hope.  Then that generation dies and the next one learns little from it, except for some of the wrong lessons.  Hard to say what's next and where it might come from, but there's nothing new under the sun and won't be until we don't need the sun any more.

Still, the Lord has a remnant of salt and light.  Maybe it accumulates slowly over time.  I don't know.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dennis Vogel

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 08:36:58 AM »

Quote
are we so blessed now to see God's judgments in the world? When He teaches us His righteousness?

Jas 1:2  My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

Easier said than done - But after a trial we can usually see the benefit in how it changed us.
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se7en

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 02:03:24 PM »

"I won the spermicidal lotto."

Pierdut I'm so glad you did! :)

That is so true though... I was reading a "christian book" about marraige boundaries just last night. It actually has some good info about how we create boundaries in marraige to help serve and love our spouse but then they slip in stuff like...

"God created us with free will and He won't violate that will."  And I think to myself..... "OOOooooh WHAT A LIE, you got a scripture and verse on that?".  It's deceptive. THANK YOU LORD that He is pealing the scales off our eyes to see Truth. To see past the curtain and see "the wizard" telling Dorathy what to do.

It bothers me because my wife reads the same book, and I know she will just read past it and not see, being taken in by the false poo. I read this book years before and didn't think anything of it.
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theophilus

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2013, 11:32:50 PM »

Just realized how many typos I have in my previous post. I really need a computer. This auto-correct on my Android isn't helping me one bit.

Pierdut, I have an Android phone and discovered SWIFTKEY. It's a keyboard for Android phones. It's the best I've tried. Check it out!
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"So, if the spirit of God is going to be between your ears... you understand your heart is in your brain? Well when the spirit of God starts to motivate your mind then you have greater capacity."

-- Ray Smith

Pierdut

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2013, 11:18:36 PM »

Just realized how many typos I have in my previous post. I really need a computer. This auto-correct on my Android isn't helping me one bit.

Pierdut, I have an Android phone and discovered SWIFTKEY. It's a keyboard for Android phones. It's the best I've tried. Check it out!

Thanks, I'll look into that.
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Pierdut

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 01:05:04 AM »

"I won the spermicidal lotto."

Pierdut I'm so glad you did! :)



Hi, Seven. I know what you meant, and it's the thought that counts, and I appreciate it - but my point was that if that were the case then my birth was just a random act completely by chance, I could have just as easily not have ever been born even if my parents did still marry each other. In fact if you take God out of the equation the odds of me not being born are much greater than the odds of me being born. But if God exists - and we believe that He does - then my birth wasn't a matter of chance at all - I HAD TO be born, and at the preappointed time, and to my parents, and in that location, etc. It's all predetermined. God works all things after the counsel of His own will, He knows the end from the beginning, everything must turn out the way God knows it will turn out, there's just no getting around that.

What's funny is Christians have no problem saying things like "God gave us a child" but they insist they have a "free will" and make uncaused choices - choices that aren't determined by anything. They say things that are Scriptural (e.g., "God gave us a child") but they don't really believe that because if they did they would have to throw "free will" out the window.

Yes they were the vessels God used to bring about this child through the natural process, but, since God already knew this child before he/she was even conceived then how could it have been possible for those two Christians not to marry each other and for that child to not be born?

It's all nonsense this doctrine of "free will," and even if you took God out of the equation you still don't have a "free will," You just choose what you prefer but your choices would still have a cause. The only thing that would change then would be predetermination, as there would no longer be an all-knowing sovereign God that works all things after the counsel of His own will.

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The Professor

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2013, 02:56:20 PM »

Free will is cast aside the moment we are born. Being born is like waken up out at sea...you have no say to being out there and you are immediately FORCED to rely on your parents or carers. As you become responsible for yourself you are then forced into the choice of sinking or swimming. The direction you swim is based on the information you have gathered in your life. And everybody needs a reason to sink...which is mostly depression...when has a person who is pleased with their life and knowingly has everything to live for chosen to sink?

Those who believe in free will mostly confuse "will" with "choice"...yet, even our choices are influenced...because our choices are subject to our will...our will is subject to our reasons....our reasons are subject to our circumstances...and our circumstances are subject to?

I always tell people instead of asking stupid questions like do humans have free will, the question should be who or what determines our circumstances?

I find it ironic that we humans live in houses to be personal and comfortable, we have beds to sleep, transportation to travel, fridges to store food in, freezers, keys, etc, etc, everything we have created in the man made world has a particular purpose, even all parts of the human body each have a particular function and yet despite this, many believe our very existence is by "chance" (for no particular purpose). How ironic and cruel would that be?

Jas 1:2  My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

Easier said than done - But after a trial we can usually see the benefit in how it changed us.

I like this verse a lot. I always tell friends and family...so many people want to get to a stage in their lives where they no longer have any problems and where they are always "happy".

The truth is, life IS problems. If anyone ever gets to a stage in life where everything is "rosy", I suggest they check their pulse...because it's either that or they have stopped growing.

An analogy would be a bodybuilder. Would he get strong if he didn't lift any weights? Muscle grows when it is under stress...but of course growth is achieved bit by bit, as a bodybuilder doesn't immediately lift the extremely heavier weights, he gradually lifts heavier.

As a general rule, people who grow up to make use of themselves in "tough" backgrounds are much more resilient than those who were born with "silver spoons" in their mouths.

I don't know about the States, but in the UK most people in positions of power are Upper Class. Again, I'm generalising but I'm of the opinion that many Upper Class people are brought up with little backbone. Many were brought up use to borrowing money when they needed it (namely from mommy and daddy) rather than earning it. So it's no surprise the economy is the way it is...they have little experience generating wealth, only borrowing money from others.

Getting back to topic, what I'm saying is trials and tribulations are our friends not our enemies, they make us better.

This is why I don't tend to measure a man by his successes, I measure him by how he responds to failure. EVERYBODY fails, EVERYBODY struggles, NOBODY is consistent...but one day things will change...and THAT DAY is all that matters....the past is merely the groundwork for the PRESENT.

After all, nobody is born righteous. And everything is hard until it is easy... 

This is why God asks us to repent...the past will be pardoned.   

I also like to remind myself daily of what Paul said in 1 Cor 10:13:

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

In this age, what good is hope without despair? Good without evil? And finally, a problem without a solution?

God isn't molding the elect into clowns, He is molding the elect into Kings and Lords...they will pave the way for the rest of humanity. 

I have come to understand, If we follow a path long enough, we will eventually see that the obstacles, obstructions and resistance were internal all along, and they will continue to be and they will always be. Nor are we following a path...we ARE the path.   

« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 03:48:03 PM by Ovi »
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se7en

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2013, 07:00:22 PM »

Pierdut,

I totally agree with what your saying. I just loved your comment "I won the spermicidal lotto." and wanted to repeat it.  I'm so going to use that phrase when someone asks me about "free will". Believe me, I'll slip it in there somewhere. :)

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Pierdut

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Re: God frames evil
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2013, 01:42:43 AM »

Pierdut,

I totally agree with what your saying. I just loved your comment "I won the spermicidal lotto." and wanted to repeat it.  I'm so going to use that phrase when someone asks me about "free will". Believe me, I'll slip it in there somewhere. :)

Hi Seven,

I'm glad you liked my comment. There's more where that came from. ;)

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