The Secret Rapture or Is It?

[loretta]

I came across a YouTube video teaching that the pre-tribulation rapture is a fraud.  Halfway through the video I decided to check out if Ray had a teaching on it  ( I'm finally finding my way around the forum  ) and I can't completely make sense of it http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm.  What exactly is the rapture doctrine ?  Does it teach about two resurrections? of two groups of saints?  All I knew was that believers would be raptured before the great tribulation and others would be left behind. But I always questioned how it fitted in with the resurrection.  My elder daughter, then a preteen and I would animatedly watch the 'Left Behind' series and in hindsight I think that she held a secret fear that one day I would be raptured and she would be left behind. For a while she tried to build up her faith to my level, then she dumped it all!  Now I will have to undo this warped teaching and throw out all the Left Behind videos, Kirk Cameroon et al. 

[Dave in Tenn]

Loretta, Ray spent a lot of time talking about a view that some hold concerning two raptures, two gospels, etc.  This was something I'd never been exposed to, so I didn't know what to make of it.  I don't want to 'summarize' what Ray wrote, but maybe that little bit of information will help you when you read it again.  Take your time, but you are on the right track getting rid of the Left Behind series.

[se7en]

loretta,

Like Dave, I had never heard of this doctrine of "two different raptures, two gospels, etc." until I read Ray's paper on the topic.

Your right though in your analysis. The secret rapture is the belief that there are elect gentiles and the elect jews (as a race of people)... and they will each have their own resurrection "rapture" at seperate times and have different positions of responsibility during the millenium. It's silly.

And absolutely, those kirk cameron movies "Left Behind" series is poop.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

It is through much tribulation that we enter into the kingdom of God. This silly notion of people being whisked away before tribulation occurs is antichrist and a false doctrine. Flesh, wants the easy road. It appeals to our flesh to just be whisked away and saved. That's one reason it's such a strong delusion... it appeals to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.

I had to chunk my "Left Behind" books and movies out the window too loretta. The secret rapture for me wasn't hard to repent from due to me never hearing it before but the crazy idea of being whisked away before tribulation... big time earth shattering repentance happened in my life.

If you finish Ray's article to the end he makes it clear. But like you, I was confused about what the secret rapture theory was at first, as I had never heard it before.

[indianabob]

Friend Loretta and folks,
I hope that the following is not seen as teaching.
We believe that the called, chosen and elect will be with Lord Jesus in spiritual form as Paul indicates when we are resurrected or changed at Jesus' second coming.
We do not believe that John the Baptist and other prophets of the O.T. economy will be in the body of Christ. There's is a different situation. (correction invited)
One way of seeing this situation is to recall the promises made to Abraham and the other fathers such as Jacob who it appears were promised positions of rulership and responsibility in the physical Kingdom that will be initiated at Lord Jesus' return to set up his Kingdom in Jerusalem.
Isn't it true that the scripture says that the elect will be with Jesus continually and never go out?
Isn't it true that the patriarchs, apostles were promised that they would have lands and positions of authority when they were resurrected as reward for what they gave up to follow Jesus?
Isn't it true that we believe that descendants of Israel will rule the physical population, maybe including the other resurrected persons of the Jewish Nation who are not in the elect, from Israel after Christ's return to Jerusalem.

I'm not calling the situation Two raptures. I don't think that idea is supported by Ray or in scripture. However, when the general resurrection to judgment occurs won't there be living flesh and blood persons in the earth and won't they be working, farming, reproducing in a family situation while our Lord administers the new government of the earth? And won't the "nations" flow unto Jerusalem to learn the ways of God's people?

Lots to think about and I would appreciate a follow up and exposition of these thoughts in a better manner.

Indiana Bob

This is a quick synopsis of what I recall and may be in error because I don't recall what Ray Smith had to say about it.

Indiana Bob

[cjwood]

loretta and other,
alex posted a link in another thread which i am reposting here.  i don't recall ever reading this particular paper before, but i am so grateful to alex for posting the link.  there is much Spiritual truth contained in that paper that i had been having trouble understanding, with regards to distinguishing between the called and the chosen/elect.

if any of you have not read this before, it is worth the time.

http://www.bible-truths.com/mike.htm

claudia

p.s.  i too got rid of the "left behind" series of books that i had.  i put them in the recycle bin.

[loretta]

Tks, Claudia, for the link to Ray's paper.  Just finished reading it.  Wow, Ray was indeed a great expositor of the Word!  I can't believe that there are people who are so spiritually blind(ed) as to contort the Word of God so.  I've gained much understanding from the paper.  Now back to the Rapture paper.  I'll be back.

loretta

[loretta]

Ray weilds the Sword with such dexterity!  We need bible teachers like him...

[gerard_dsouza]

I never had the privilege to interact with Ray towards the end. I had a very few emails sometime around 2002 or so, more on the topic against tithing, which was one of the topics that I was so much felt inspired and clear that people needed to be free from the false doctrine of tithing taught in the church. At that time I started to learn about restoration of all things (salvation of all) when I read Stephen Jones book called Creation Jubilee. I was still in the process of development and not really clear or aware on what Ray's direction and calling.

Ray did inspire me in last 2 months of my search and having read some of his material. The Lord drew me to this material now. No regrets, but I feel saddened to not be able to interact with him.

Ray is for sure unique and his writing are a great blessing. He has left a good example for all of us. He has doe sure inspired and blessed me by his writings and messages in audio. Still studying his writings. It takes time go through all this carefully.