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Author Topic: Huh -Gehenna fire and lake of fire  (Read 1235 times)

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microlink

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Huh -Gehenna fire and lake of fire
« on: September 08, 2013, 12:29:41 PM »

Those who are led by God's Spirit and members of the forum understand the bad translations which use the word "hell" in translating the words sheol (Hebrew) and the word hades (Greek) which means grave (the unseen).  The word hell does appear numerous times in our modern versions of the bible. But most serious students of the scriptures recognise that the idea if a "hell" which will torture the unsaved in a scorching eternal fire is not scriptural but pure heresy - a pagan doctrine. Understanding the meanings of hades and sheol in the original scriptures clearly shows that such is a false doctrine (reference Ray's Instalment XVI HELL Part E--HADES & THE SECOND DEATH).

Moving on beyond this basic teaching which Ray has written about so clearly in numerous places. So the question. What is the connection between the words "Gehenna fire" and "Lake of Fire"? Are they the same thing or are they different and how? And why is Gehenna fire only spoken by Jesus in His earthy ministry, and not mentioned later in Scripture (James 3:6 - yes I know). And why is the Lake of fire only mentioned in Revelation and no where else?

And then this important scripture ties much of this together:
Heb 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire.

Jesus spoke in parables and used figures of speech and symbolic language to hide the spiritual meaning from the non-elect.  Ray points out that Gehenna fire is symbolic of God's spiritual purging fire.

Extracts from Ray"s writings in Green text.

(Installment 16 -D3)  Yes, of course, the whole world of unbelievers and ungodly will experience God's Divine consuming fire-His Gehenna fire, but not before it has first purged all of His Elect, the called and Chosen of the House of God. Which judgment the "House of God" has been experiencing now for 2000 years.
These instructions are decidedly not written for the "Many [who] will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, ...in Thy name done many wonderful works?... I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me..." (Matt. 7:22-23).
Only the living experience "Gehenna fire." And during this life, It is rather the living chosen elect of Jesus Christ who go through "Gehenna fire."
(Installment 16 -D) And so we have record of Jesus speaking of either Gehenna or Gehenna fire eleven times, but on only four different occasions in His entire ministry:
1.   Sermon on the mount: Matt. 5:29, 30, 22 and Mark 9:43, 45, 47 are all the same one occasion.
2.   Warning the apostles of Whom to fear: Matt. 10:28 and Luke 12:5 are both the same one occasion.
3.   Upbraiding the Pharisees: Matt. 23:15 and verse 33 are both the same occasion.
4.   Warning against offending a little one: Matt. 18:9
And James mentions "Gehenna" one time (James 3:6), but not in connection with any kind of punishment or judgment. And there is no such thing as "hades [hell]


Conclusion then, as Ray points out, is that Gehenna fire is symbolic of God's spiritual purging fire.

And the Lake of Fire is only mentioned 5 times in Revelation.
Rev_19:20  Rev_20:10  Rev_20:14  Rev_20:15  Rev_21:8 
And the word fire does appear in scripture many times and is from the Greek word "pur" meaning fire.

Ray has said in Instalment 16-D3 Sermon on the Mount:

"Faith" is intangible and as such cannot be "tried" in literal fire. The Greek word translated fire is pur, and it means "fire" (literal or figuratively)-Strong's #4442.
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he has built there upon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet as by fire" (I Cor. 3:13-15).
Notice it says every person - every
Again fire (Gk; pur) is used figuratively, because the one being tried, "...he himself shall be saved, yet as BY FIRE." If one is "saved by fire," he is not eternally tortured in fire.
The word "fire" is used with reference to Judgment many times in Scripture: "Gehenna fire," "salted with fire," "furnace of fire," "unquenchable fire," "everlasting fire," "burn by fire," "baptism by fire," "coals of fire," "flaming fire," "eternal fire," "consuming fire."
 (Ray quote: Installment 16-D Sermon on the Mount).

Yes, of course, the whole world of unbelievers and ungodly will experience God's Divine consuming fire-His Gehenna fire, but not before it has first purged all of His Elect, the called and Chosen of the House of God. Which judgment the "House of God" has been experiencing now for 2000 years.
Only the living experience "Gehenna fire." And during this life, It is rather the living chosen elect of Jesus Christ who go through "Gehenna fire." (Ray quote: Installment 16-D Sermon on the Mount)


And there are so many other scriptures that Ray has commented on this very important topic.

So Ray tells us from scripture that the Lake of Fire and Gehenna fire are the same thing. I believe this but it makes me think  - why would it not be called the same thing not two different sets of words. The only conclusion I can draw is that Jesus used Gehenna while in the flesh is because people then were very familiar with this valley of Hinnom as a place where refuge is burnt, symbolic of Him burning our the impurities of His elect. And it would be so for His followers in this eon to understand the need for God's fire power (pun intended)  to purge our sins in this life.

So both are the same it seems.

The words lake of fire (symbolic)and Gehenna fire (figurative) are God's method of bringing all of humanity to Him in this eon and beyond.

More thoughts come to mind, but enough now( i.e. Mat 21:44)

God is a consuming fire (figurative). God is sovereign and is love (literal).
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3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

lilitalienboi16

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Re: Huh -Gehenna fire and lake of fire
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 07:25:40 PM »

It may also be due to the fact that right no, gehena is entirely God and his jidgement ipon the elect whereas in the ressurection this gehenna fire will now be comprised of the elect and so it recieves a new name to pronounce the fact that now not only is that fire God, but it is His elect. The lake of fire to consime the sea of humanity.

Maybe? I'm just speculating, perhaps someone else can contribute more to this.

Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Extol

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Re: Huh -Gehenna fire and lake of fire
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 07:38:55 PM »


So Ray tells us from scripture that the Lake of Fire and Gehenna fire are the same thing. I believe this but it makes me think  - why would it not be called the same thing not two different sets of words.


Maybe to make it more difficult to understand? In Ray's excellent study Does All Mean All?, he notes that the Greek word for "all" does not necessarily mean ALL, EVERYONE. "Why is there not a word that really means all?" he asks. "Because then how would Satan deceive the world?"

Maybe it's the same with this fire stuff. If Paul had called the fire through which people are saved (1 Cor. 3:15) the Lake of Fire, that would throw a big monkey wrench into this idea of eternal fire. But because there is Gehenna fire, the fire through which we are saved, the Lake of Fire, the consuming fire, etc. . .it gets muddled and confusing, and people can't see the truth--which, of course, is the point.
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