> General Discussions
wanting to take vows... till marriage is possible
Kat:
Hi George,
--- Quote ---Maybe this is for another topic, but what i want to know is, which is worse? The spiritual sins committed by the thoughts and the heart, or the act? Or are they equally bad?
--- End quote ---
It is what is in a person's HEART, which is what leads a person to sin eventually.
James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
His "own desires" are what is in his heart...
v. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
The heart holds our innermost thoughts/desires/lust and we know that the carnal human nature leans towards our lusts, and it is by what is in our heart by which we are judged.
Pro 23:7 For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.
Jer 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes,
But the LORD weighs the hearts.
Jer 17:10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings.
Luke 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
Yes the heart is the crux of the matter, it is where our thoughts develop and it is where our character is stored up. So whatever is there good or wicked, God judges us by that.
Rom 2:5 But because of your hard and impenitent (unrepentant) heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
v. 6 He will render to each one according to his works:
v. 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
v. 8 but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
1Cor 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
v. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
v. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Oatmeal:
I think that the truth of this matter is a lot harder than many people want to acknowledge. When the disciples understood the matter regarding marriage and divorce, their reaction was: “it is not good to marry”. It is definitely a good idea to consider carefully before entering into the marriage covenant. The Scriptures are clear that it is death only that ends this covenant, and that any other marriage that occurs following the original marriage, when one of the original marriage partners is still alive, is a continuous act of adultery. I guess at this stage it may be considered by some members that this is only my opinion, but in honesty Scripture does appear to back this up. And it is not that I have always been personally happy with the situation.
It has been claimed that there is an “escape clause” in Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 – the “except for fornication”. This, as far as I can see, cannot be referring to sexual unfaithfulness occurring in the marriage proper, that is, occurring after the marriage ceremony. If it were referring to sexual unfaithfulness in the marriage proper, then Matthew 5:31-32 and Matthew 19:3-12 would be logically inconsistent, and the claim would also not tie up with other Scripture, which would add more inconsistency.
In partial explanation:
Many people believe and are taught that if their marriage partner divorces them and remarries, then they are free to remarry as their partner is committing adultery. However, If God treats the second marriage as adultery then that means that the first marriage is still valid and remains current in God’s eyes. If it were true that the second marriage frees up the partner of the first marriage to remarry then the second marriage just mentioned can no longer be adultery as the very act of committing this adulterous second marriage means that the first marriage is no longer valid and so immediately that makes the second marriage no longer adultery and also valid. Am I being logically consistent?
I think logic is telling us that the reference to fornication in Matthew 5:32 and Matthew 19:9 is not referring to sexual unfaithfulness by one of the marriage partners that has taken place after the completion of the marriage ceremony. In this situation also the “except for fornication” refers to something that the woman has done, not the man.
In Kat’s first post in this thread Ray has made very clear the confusion that is caused when the “except for fornication” is used to mean sexual unfaithfulness occurring after the marriage ceremony has taken place.
Here is a previous post in regard to the matter. The post remains as originally posted except for removal of one continuous section of a part and full paragraph.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12882.msg113359.html#msg113359
Thus in this current post I have not continued much beyond what has already been posted.
In summary, and in direct regard to your post, I make the point that, according to Scripture, a person can remarry only if their spouse has physically died. I believe that Scripture, including and beyond that quoted above, clearly backs this up. Of course I am open to correction.
Oatmeal
Dave in Tenn:
Was any of this any help to your daughter?
adiamondintheson:
I really appreciate very much all the replies about this. It's a tough situation, my daughter hasn't believed in God for many years... was married to an atheist also... who cheated on her in many ways, many times. It was not a good marriage and lasted 11 years. It's not her choice that they can't be divorced right away.
My husband and I have shared many things we've learned here at BT's with her, and it seems that her heart is softening.
I struggle, as I so want her to be happy for once in her life, and yet I know what the Bible says about things regarding marriage, divorce, remarriage... etc. As a child myself I was brought up with very rigid, legalistic teaching. I know that it's NOT what you DO or DON'T do that brings salvation. It's just very hard letting go of things you've been taught for so many years. We are just thankful that it's really coming together for us.. the understanding that all will be saved... and to just trust God to do His work.
Thanks you'all...
Connie
adiamondintheson:
Dave... I'm not so sure it was so much for my daughter that I posted... but for my husband and I. We struggle with the fact they are not married, they come to visit us (from out of town).. do we stand a ground and say, you cannot sleep together here at our home.. Knowing that they cannot be legally married until her divorce is even final. Then they feel so strongly about being together, they want to have their own little private vows thinking somehow that it will help somehow.
Sounds so really mixed up... but I have to trust and believe that God is working in their lives to draw them to Himself. It's just hard to know where we need to stand... or what we need to say or do.
Thanks again everyone.
Connie
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