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Let us reason together !
rick:
Yes Moises , that is exactly how I understand it to be, praying according to Gods will.
So my understanding is as such, we only get our prayers answered if we pray according to Gods will, if I pray for 10 million dollars so I never have to work another day the rest of my life, I’m not saying God could not provide that for me however I don’t believe that is God’s will for me.
Now the prayer or request I pray was ordained from before the foundation of the earth, I like the way Dave from Tenn put it when he said, he believes ( life is more about dying than living ), how true that is.
It’s my personal belief that anything I would pray for, that would encourage my carnal mind would not be in the will of God as I am to be dying daily.
But if I should pray and God does answer my prayer then that pray would be according to God’s will and that pray would of been ordained from the beginning.
So to me, its not that if God answered my prayer that God had change any event or circumstances to accommodate me, it was ordained to be, but what else do I get besides my prayers answered from God ? I get more faith, now faith to me is simply trusting God more and more each day.
If God inspires me to pray any prayer and I see that prayer come into reality, has my faith in God increased ? Absolutely it has, God knows the ends from the beginning but I don’t.
Peace and love to all. :)
acomplishedartis:
So there is two kinds of God's will. The first one is God's ultimate will and intentions, for example, God's will is to save mankind. EVERYTHING that happens good or bad to accomplish His ultimate plans and intentions is God's will.
The second one is His inmediate will, for example, God doesn't will that people do very weaked things.
However, people doing weaked things for a while is part of God's ultimate will--part of God's whole plan.
If I pray to God: 'not my will but your will (ultimate will) be done' respecting whatever. I always win! Because whatever happens is part of God's first kind of will.
rick:
Yes moises, this is how Ray explains it in the lake of fire series.
DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN GOD’S STATED WILL AND HIS PLAN OR INTENTIONS
Few students of the Scriptures have learned the truth regarding God’s stated WILL and His PLAN or INTENTIONS. They are clearly not one and the same. They operate completely differently for different purposes.
First we should understand that God’s will is used both as a noun and a verb. As a noun, God’s will is virtually synonymous with His GOAL. It is usually not too hard to tell in Scripture whether the word "will" is used as a noun or a verb. In the Scripture we just used to show that things only happen "if God will," it is used as a verb. And whenever God uses His will as a verb, then it absolutely will be fulfilled and carried out at the time and place that He wills it.
If, however, God is speaking of His will as a noun, meaning His ultimate goal, then it does not immediately come about in totality at the place and time that He states it. A perfect example of God’s will as a noun and it not coming to total fruition at the place and time stated, is in what is popularly called "The Lord’s Prayer."
"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heave" (Matt. 6:9-10).
I don’t think too many would argue that God’s kingdom and His will has not totally come to this earth as it is in heaven. This is a goal—it will happen, just not at this time. And so man’s will is almost always at variance with God’s stated will as His ultimate goal for the human race. But God’s day-to-day willing of events to carrying out His plan is never ever contradicted or thwarted by puny man. Paul understood this principle perfectly.
DID PHARAOH HAVE FREE WILL?
We will now look at some of the most profound and yet most misunderstood and not believed Scriptures in the entire Bible.
"For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion" (Rom. 9:15).
Just who is in control in this statement, puny man or God? Man’s will is not free to contradict what God says He WILL DO.
"So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but OF GOD that shows mercy" (Ver. 16).
might show My powers in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore
peace and love to all. :)
loretta:
--- Quote from: HoneyLamb56 on January 04, 2014, 09:09:09 AM ---I must confess that over the last 5 years I have questioned the Potter about our (my husband and I) circumstances as I cannot see the "why" (we gave up everything) as we feel things would have been more ideal left as it was; Most times I have regretted the decision we made and want a redo. Then when I obsess about it, I pray to be happy in our circumstance and in time maybe He will let me see the "why". Who am I to question the Potter ???
--- End quote ---
Hi HoneyLamb,
You will have peace concerning your present situation only when you understand that the decision you took about giving everything up was influenced by your circumstances at the time which were ordained by God.
Ray explains it very well in his lof paper. http://bible-truths.com/lake15-B.html
God Almighty caused Joseph’s brothers to hate and desire to kill their brother because of a dream that would have caused any carnal-minded person to hate their brother under the same circumstances.
Joseph was the youngest of the brothers, so naturally all the other brothers would think themselves superior to him. Jacob loved Joseph more than the others, so naturally they would have jealousy toward him. Then Joseph tells his brothers of a dream he had where his sheaf in the field was standing upright and the sheaves of his brothers all bowed down to him. What audacity they thought of their little brother presenting such a haughty representation of himself. And then to add insult to injury he tells them of another dream he had where the sun [his father] and the moon [his mother] and eleven stars [his eleven brothers] all bowed down to him.
That was the last straw! They, Joseph’s elder brothers, would all bow down and worship Joseph, their little brother? Over their dead bodies. From then on they hated Joseph with a passion. And what caused this hatred? Why Joseph’s silly dream, that’s what. And just Who was it that caused that silly dream? None other than God. And yet, there are those who will insist that Joseph’s brothers did not need to do what they did. That their wills were ‘free’ to do good even though they were accustomed to doing evil under "the law of sin and death," and even though none of them were able to "change an Ethiopian’s skin or a leopard’s spots."
I am at a hard place relationally. While I am doing everything in my might ( that's my carnal self at work! :-[) to change my situation , I am not asking God to change my situation because I know it could go either way, according to His will (immediate), for His divine purpose (ultimate). But because of the truths I have learnt here, I am trusting God with my situation, whichever way it goes. I have peace about it because looking back the series of decisions that lead me to this hard place were not uncaused. And I know that whichever way it may go, scary as it seems, I know that He has promised to never leave or forsake me. Looking back I know he has been faithful over the years and I think of the footprints in the sand http://llerrah.com/footprints.htm. Hark, he has carried me so far, why will he throw me into the deep? Yes, sometimes, it does appear that he allows us to drown in our own sorrows and regrets, but He will rescue us in the end. That is what I believe, that is what I trust, whatever the outcome in this age.
acomplishedartis:
--- Quote from: Moises G. on January 04, 2014, 02:20:16 AM ---
...Therefore is useless to ask God to change future events. The domino effect started so long ago.
--- End quote ---
I have been thinking on my own post respond for a while... and realize I was trying to say too much in such a little and maybe confusing phrase. I think that it's so much faster and easier for me to explain my self quickly when talking in person than posting.
Anyway, just in case somebody cares I will try to explain better what I wanted to convey, and add a few thoughts on it.
First my premise and from where I get my conclusions is ''predestination'' and ''our lack of free-will'':
So when I said that is useless to ask God to change future events, I don't mean that we shouldn't pray and let God know our requests. What I mean is that all future events are already written, and God is not like our Genie of the lamp who has to obey all our wishes. It must be that when we pray according God's will, we are preparing ourselves to be ready for whatever it comes, and to be able to thanks God for it. I once heard that God already knows what we need, exactly when we need it (He knows even better than us), so I don't think that praying and talking to God is useless. This reminds me when Jesus prayed, that if possible, God would take that cup from him, and then He ended saying, but not My will but Your will.
In deed is kind of scary to pray that way, because sometimes we want our will so bad.
This are some of my favorite verses and they seem to have the answer to why praying is usefull even so it will not change the predestined future that God have already planned to happen.
Philippians 4:
4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice;
5 let your forbearance be known to all men; the Lord is near;
6 for nothing be anxious, but in everything by prayer, and by supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God;
7 and the peace of God, that is surpassing all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts [And what could be of more value than ''the peace of God'' in our hearts and minds?] in Christ Jesus.
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