Six words Ray wrote.

[rick]

I've been meditating on six words Ray wrote in his papers, those six words hit me like a ton of bricks.  They are so simple yet most profound.

One can find in some of Rays writings, a question that ray would ask, which is ( but do they believe the scriptures ? )

I never put myself in the camp of ( they ) but while meditating I did, I had to ask myself, if I  believe the scriptures. As I was pondering that question, I realized ( for me ) that's the narrow gate Jesus was speaking of.

One cannot enter in unbelief and one cannot believe unless God gives the faith to believe. It really is of God. I believe the message of the bible, I trust God, I trust He will do what He said He will do. I believe the good news.

As much as I would like to flee this life, it's necessary, I long for all things to be new and evil reigns no more.. How sweet the sound. 

[cjwood]

I long for all things to be new and evil reigns no more.. How sweet the sound. 






that's what i'm talkin 'bout, willis!!!   

and until then we can remember also that our Lord loves us so, so much rick.  He died so that the Spirit of His/our Father could come and live in us, within our hearts graced by God.  that's the only way we will ever receive His peace.  True Peace. 

the truth of the matter is that when Christ does return, even if it's tonight, He will find very little faith in Him or His God and Father.

so hold onto the believing you have and exercise the faith He gave you every minute of the day.  our God is faithFULL. 

claudia

[jingle52]

Hi Rick,
It is also the application of the life one has to live when a believer. One has to find that narrow gate and walk the narrow path, you cannot do that if you still:
Live as you've been living before, you have to change or see the change taking place in you. You should be giving up the lusts of life in not taking part of this world i.e. taking active part in its politics, doing everything you can to become rich, abstain from anything the apostles remind us of in their epistles. In this modern world we should make an effort to abstain from all the entertainment on offer by not
watching movies with violence and sex, zombies and ghosts, magic and spirits and movies with serial killers – anything that is not wholesome for the soul or good to the eyes.
We have been given the gift of faith by the grace of  our God Yahweh (I love using His name now), we are believers and have come to understand the Scriptures so much better through his servant Ray....
It is true that it is a long process, but we still have to make these choices to really want to walk that path, our Lord Jesus Christ will assist us if we truly want to win this race... then we will be able to put on that white garment to cover our nakedness in spiritual achievements. It's a long and hard battle we face everyday!
Just my two cents,
Jingle

[Dave in Tenn]

The "gate" is a Person.  The "way" is a Person.  "No man comes to the Father except by ME."  There is ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM.  The LORD Jesus Christ, HIS FAITH (given to us), and the Baptism into His Death.  There's no contradiction in Scripture, only different ways of saying the same thing.

[jingle52]

Exactly Dave, we should follow Christ by living a wholesome and godly life, dying daily to the lusts of the world.

[loretta]

Exactly Dave, we should follow Christ by living a wholesome and godly life, dying daily to the lusts of the world.

Don't mean to offened you, but that sounds like a jingle from Christendom.

It is true that it is a long process, but we still have to make these choices to really want to walk that path, our Lord Jesus Christ will assist us if we truly want to win this race... then we will be able to put on that white garment to cover our nakedness in spiritual achievements. It's a long and hard battle we face everyday!

Oh really, and do we really have the free will to make all those choices you outlined in your previous post?

[cjwood]

Oh really, and do we really have the free will to make all those choices you outlined in your previous post?




it is a fact that we do NOT have free will, BUT, we do have a brain with which we make choices all day long.  we CAN make the choice to go to the Word and make a conscious decision to follow after Christ, the Narrow Path.  of course we know that any choice we make is the choice our Creator knew we would make. 

our Father gave us the most precious gift He could through Jesus Christ our Saviour.  he gave us a part of Himself, gracing our hearts with His faith.  if we sit and do not walk in that faith, the very faith of Christ, hiding it within our hearts only, afraid to act on it because one might think we are doing it of our own efforts, then our faith is hidden as a light hidden under a cover.  like the man who took the money given to him and went and buried it in the ground waiting to use it for a rainy day.  the faith of Christ we hold within our hearts is mighty and powerful, and the only tool, besides His Word that we have to break the chains of this nasty world and all it throws at us.  AND, both faith and the Word of God were given to us to use and apply, not just to hide it away in our hearts.

claudia

[jingle52]

Amen Claudia.
Blessings.
Jingle

[John from Kentucky]

Let Loretta be.  She is correct.

We don't have free will.  Therefore, the choices we make are not free either.  They all go back to God.  Read chapters 1 and 2 of the Book of Job.

Judas didn't want to betray Jesus.  He was compelled to by forces greater than he.

Peter did not want to deny Jesus.  He was compelled to by forces greater than he.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9

Grace is Divine favor from above.  Faith doesn't save us (it's through faith) and of course works don't save us.  Neither do faith and works together save us.  Grace saves us.  All comes from God.

Give all the glory to God.  Humankind do not know their right hand from their left without the grace of God.

[Kat]

Php 1:6  being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

It is God who drags us the Jesus Christ to start with and God does not just assist us, if we endure to the end, it's only because God does finish it in us. Yes it is done through us, we certainly do participate, God puts in us to will and to do and then we do strive and obey, but it is all of God.

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rick]

J.F.K. is right, unless we are dragged to God we run. God gives us faith, God is the only one who can bring about change.

God is the potter, is the pot free to change its outcome and say I will be one of the elect or I will be not?  Its God who chooses and He chooses with a free will .God does it all in us, He gives us the desire to follow, the change can only come about when God 's timetable says it shall be.

God knows the number of hairs on my head, I have not a clue how many hairs are on my  head, that to me is a God who not only directs but pays attention to every little detailed of my life.

What ever Gods will is for my life must also included all His intentions for my life. All is of God, know matter how I look at it.

If one is of the elect status, its guaranteed for that one, or if one is not of the elect statues then its guaranteed they won't be.

God is calling Himself out a people here and now, all others will be called at a later time as God is no respecters of persons as its God's will that all be saved . God's will, will be done.

God is the gate, He's the good Shepard, I must live out what He's given me to live out before the foundations of the earth.

What choice have I...............that wasn't predetermined ?

[Dave in Tenn]

...There is ONE LORD...

I know what I've had to go through, and no self-respecting christian would wish it on anybody. 

[lilitalienboi16]

Oh really, and do we really have the free will to make all those choices you outlined in your previous post?




it is a fact that we do NOT have free will, BUT, we do have a brain with which we make choices all day long.  we CAN make the choice to go to the Word and make a conscious decision to follow after Christ, the Narrow Path.  of course we know that any choice we make is the choice our Creator knew we would make. 

our Father gave us the most precious gift He could through Jesus Christ our Saviour.  he gave us a part of Himself, gracing our hearts with His faith.  if we sit and do not walk in that faith, the very faith of Christ, hiding it within our hearts only, afraid to act on it because one might think we are doing it of our own efforts, then our faith is hidden as a light hidden under a cover.  like the man who took the money given to him and went and buried it in the ground waiting to use it for a rainy day.  the faith of Christ we hold within our hearts is mighty and powerful, and the only tool, besides His Word that we have to break the chains of this nasty world and all it throws at us.  AND, both faith and the Word of God were given to us to use and apply, not just to hide it away in our hearts.

claudia

Wow claudia, so very profound. Exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you for sharing dear sister. You have blessed me mightily.

Love,
Alex

[theophilus]

Please submit a scripture reference that supports "of course we know that any choice we make is the choice our Creator knew we would make."

I'm curious. Especially because the statement declares that WE KNOW. If we have knowledge of something, there must be of necessity a source from where that knowledge originates.

[John from Kentucky]

Please submit a scripture reference that supports "of course we know that any choice we make is the choice our Creator knew we would make."

I'm curious. Especially because the statement declares that WE KNOW. If we have knowledge of something, there must be of necessity a source from where that knowledge originates.

...For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. Isa 46:9

Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure.' Isa 46:10

[jingle52]

Gal 5
16 And I say: In the Spirit walk ye, and the desire of the flesh ye may not complete;
17 for the flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit contrary to the flesh, and these are opposed one to another, that the things that ye may will -- these ye may not do;
18 and if by the Spirit ye are led, ye are not under law.
19 And manifest also are the works of the flesh, which are: Adultery, whoredom, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strifes, emulations, wraths, rivalries, dissensions, sects,
21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revellings, and such like, of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that those doing such things the reign of God shall not inherit.
22 And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law;
24 and those who are Christ's, the flesh did crucify with the affections, and the desires;
25 if we may live in the Spirit, in the Spirit also we may walk;
26 let us not become vain-glorious -- one another provoking, one another envying!

Yes, we are for a fact drawn by God, through His grace and it is a fact that if we are led by the Spirit, we should be producing fruits mentioned  in verse 22
it is a hard battle we fight every day by dying to the flesh, we must make this effort, as Ray somewhere said, we make the choices, we are responsible for the choices we make.... we are put in situations were we have to make choices one way or the other, we make them. God is responsible for His creation, but we as individuals are responsible for our choices.
God's will will always be done and that is axiomatic - whether now or later, everything is going to His plan as Ray also reminded us.
All of God!

[Abednego]

Declaring the end from the beginning,

I don't think the world understands that the word from is not being used in a comparative sense.

[Kat]

Here are a few emails that I think can be helpful in this discussion.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1937.0.html ---
Everyone has the ability to make choice, but that choice is based on SOME CAUSE, and that cause is what renders the choice to be not free.

God foresaw EVERYTHING in His creation BEFORE the creation. Therefore, nothing is "free" to go contrary to what God already knows MUST AND WILL BE!  "For it is GOD which works in you both to WILL and to DO of His Good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).  We must first believe the Scriptures before e will be able to understand the Scriptures.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1744.0.html ---
ALL IS OF GOD, but not is all of God directly.  God created man--man SINS, God if free from sin and never sins or MAKES OR FORCES anyone to sin. Neither does He FORCE people to be rich or famous. God created man and man chooses what he does based on the strongest motivation in his heart.
And most people's heart consists of lust, lies, blasphemy and the like.

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of HIS OWN LUSTS [whether for bad and evil things or for for what we may perceive as good things which may not be good or righteous things], and enticed" (James 1:13-14).

Man has the ability to make choices. He does not have the ability to make choices that are free from any cause. The "cause" of most of our choices is our mind and heart.  And of the abundance of our heart, our mind thinks, our tongue speaks, and in our body we take physical action.  Only God can give us a "new" and pure heart.
     
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ------------------
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!

God be with you,
Ray

[John from Kentucky]

It's good to read Ray's words again.

The subject of no free will, along with the related subject of the salvation of all, are two matters that Ray has nailed down cold.

Also, his gift of teaching a complex subject in simple language to others.

I already knew much of what Ray taught.  But the truth about no free will took me completely by surprise.  All my life, I thought I made my own decisions.  I controlled my inner me.

God smacked me in the head with the truth of no free will.

[rick]

but we as individuals are responsible for our choices.

Its my understanding, we are not responsible for our choices, only accountable. No one can go against Gods intentions and so God is responsible.