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John 5:37

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cheekie3:
John from Kentucky / Kat / All -

I believe Ray taught that "there is only one God (The Father and His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ)".

I believe Ray also taught that "some religions teach that Jesus is The Father".

Is Ray therefore not stating that "there is only one God (The Father and His Son The Lord Jesus Christ)" and also "Jesus is not The Father but the express image of His Father", as Jesus is the only one to come out of The Father, and all else come from The Father through the Son.

Is it not TRUE that we can only know The Father through the Son.

Regards, George.

Ian 155:
Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: this KJ version clearly suggests 2 or more persons

and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, ( we are separate, here ...that is In the beginning, before/whilst Christ is being formed in us, we are "them" not a part of "Our" yet) we will contribute/play a roll in the transforming of many though - just as Christ and the apostles

and

creating is El ohim man in his image (Rays translation) "his" image understood as One - "our" image, understood as more than one

The "–im" ending denotes a plural masculine noun. Most of the time, however, when the noun is used for the true God it has singular masculine verbs. This is contrary to rules of Hebrew grammar.  ---- (Hebrew streams)


One family, relate that to yourself you have a father and Mother (bride and groom) whether they were legally married or not, you were born from a joining together by your Father and Mother who are ONE in The sight of God ..

Ephesians 5v30 because we are members of His body.31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."I think this is the multiplication process" 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. (Bride and Groom ) we are the church --

If Paul calls this is a great mystery, hey lets call it that, and get on with it - for he says
Philippians 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me

To Cheekie (George),quote "Is it not TRUE that we can only know The Father through the Son."

Brother it is true you can only know the Father by emulating the Son - no short cut into the sheep pen/fold .....Jn 14 v 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

theophilus:

--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on May 20, 2014, 01:31:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: theophilus on May 20, 2014, 01:06:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on May 18, 2014, 06:02:19 PM ---
--- Quote ---Actually, I have accumulated multiple Scriptures that prove the truth of Ray's creed.  However, it would be a waste of my time to present them.  Only God's Spirit can give understanding of spiritual truths.
--- End quote ---

Then it should not be a problem for you to wait patiently.

Rom 8:25  But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

--- End quote ---

I suspect that accumulating those multiple scriptures took you some time. If you have them saved in a text file, it would only take a copy and paste action in order to present them for the rest of us. It wouldn't even take you five minutes to share this info. ;)

On another note, I would say that those scriptures "support" or "back up" Ray's creed. If those scriptures "prove" the truth of Ray's creed, then anyone of us could benefit from this list of scriptures, wouldn't you say?

I do understand what an autobiography is. In my own words, it is the story of someone's life; it could be abridged or unabridged. I think God's autobiography (to use Ray's term) is an abridged one, since not everything that Jesus said or did or experienced or lived was written down. We don't even know how Jesus reacted to so many things that He experienced. We have close to nothing about His childhood! How did Jesus deal with sexual temptations of any kind? Which illnesses did He suffer, as a child and as an adult? How did He come to the realization that He was THE Son of God? Did the Father reveal to Him all about what He was and His mission, or did Jesus remember everything on His own? As a child, did He remember being with the Father before His incarnation? Did He ever fall in love? Did He love another woman other than His mother (I'm not including His sisters)? So many questions!!!

Years ago, I had a thought about God knowing what it was to be a human being. How would He know what it feels to be us? Well, THROUGH Jesus Christ He would know--through THEIR shared oneness. But to say that Jesus is God's very own authorized autobiography is to say that Jesus himself is the God. Moreover, we would have to conclude that the God DIED; but who was in charge of the universe while He was dead? God's spirit?  ::) But if He was dead, and dead IS DEAD, how could He bring Himself back to life?

I think someone wants to have his cake and eat it too. At the same time that oneness between the Father and Son is affirmed, a clear separation is also affirmed. We're told that 1 + 1 = 1 AND 2 also! Trinitarians invoke the arithmetic operation of multiplication and tell us that 1x1x1 = 1. Ta-da!!! Problem solved! We cannot ever get 3 as a result of multiplying 1 by itself three times! But we do have THREE ones. We could even multiply 1 by itself many more times and we would still get 1 as the answer. Benny Hinn claims in one of his teachings that there are 9, YES! 9!, persons in the Godhead. Multiplication is very useful, didn't you know? ;)

I really don't get it that the teaching of, say, the forgiveness of sins can be explained to a believer with the help of the scriptures. They are not left with "If God doesn't reveal it to you, you will never understand it." But when it comes to the nature of God the principle of individual divine revelation is invoked. Hmmm!

--- End quote ---


You do not have a clue what you're talking about, not a clue.

And no, you do not know what an autobiography is.  The explanation you gave is of a biography.  You need to educate yourself as to what an autobiography is.  In Ray's Creed, he was contrasting a biography with an autobiography.  Two different words, with different meanings.

As to Scriptures, I am old fashioned.  I still read and use books.  I print Scriptures out on paper and organize them by subject matter following the scripture that says, "Line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.

Another thing you do not understand is that all understanding of scriptural truth comes from God and God alone.  His Words are Spirit, and only the Spirit of God gives understanding.  No human can ever understand any scripture solely by human understanding.

Jesus also tells us not to give something of value to someone who cannot appreciate or understand the value of a truth.

Finally, the Forum does have a no teaching rule, which limits how much we can discuss certain matters.

--- End quote ---

My bad John!!!  The following day after I posted my comment it dawned on me that I missed something! So, no hard feelings about your suggestion for me to educate myself; though I do educate myself! I should show you the apps I have on my phone! They're awesome! :)

Brother, I work nights, from 6 pm to sometimes 6 am, so my mind is very tired at that time. I should refrain from posting anything at that hour, since I'm exhausted. I read and re-read my post to make sure I had everything right. I honestly didn't see what you saw with fresh eyes. So, don't run away with the idea that I lack enough education to tell the difference between biography and autobiography, or that I'm plainly stupid.

So, if you will give me the chance, I will give it a second try:

In my own words, autobiography is the story of someone's life as written by that someone. So, if you write an autobiography, it will be your life story in your own words. Close enough? I hope so. Like I said, in my own words, since I didn't consult an online dictionary.

Nothing wrong with your approach to bible study. What you do on paper can also be done using a computer or smart phone. Whatever works best for the person I say.

As regards understanding any scriptural truth, I do believe wholeheartedly it comes from God. But I also believe God uses means to convey that understanding. You could be a means to someone understanding a scriptural truth, just as bible-truths has been serving as a means for many people to arrive at or receive said understanding. Even nature has been declaring the glory of God.

You're right about your pearls. If I can't value them, I shouldn't want them.

Just as this forum has a No Teaching rule, which I'm not suggesting you break, shouldn't there be a way to hint that a topic is a Pearl, only to be discussed by those who understand it? In fact, you could create a private thread to which an unenlightened person like myself wouldn't have access. It's not fair that you be discussing a topic and pique our interest only to show us the Pearls card and leave us hanging.

You do well in not teaching, since I imagine that might not be your calling. I suppose I should stick to reading the things Ray taught in his papers, what other authors have written and take my LOA from this forum. It seems to be the path of least resistance.

Rene:

--- Quote from: cheekie3 on May 21, 2014, 02:43:53 AM ---John from Kentucky / Kat / All -

I believe Ray taught that "there is only one God (The Father and His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ)".

I believe Ray also taught that "some religions teach that Jesus is The Father".

Is Ray therefore not stating that "there is only one God (The Father and His Son The Lord Jesus Christ)" and also "Jesus is not The Father but the express image of His Father", as Jesus is the only one to come out of The Father, and all else come from The Father through the Son.

Is it not TRUE that we can only know The Father through the Son.

Regards, George.

--- End quote ---

 :)

Kat:


--- Quote from: Ian 155 on May 21, 2014, 06:29:46 AM ---Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: this KJ version clearly suggests 2 or more persons

and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, ( we are separate, here ...that is In the beginning, before/whilst Christ is being formed in us, we are "them" not a part of "Our" yet) we will contribute/play a roll in the transforming of many though - just as Christ and the apostles

and

creating is El ohim man in his image (Rays translation) "his" image understood as One - "our" image, understood as more than one

The "–im" ending denotes a plural masculine noun. Most of the time, however, when the noun is used for the true God it has singular masculine verbs. This is contrary to rules of Hebrew grammar.  ---- (Hebrew streams)
--- End quote ---

Thinking about this Scripture that speaks of God as "Us" and "Our," it most certainly denotes a plurality. I do not believe it is as in 2 individuals though, because there is ONE God... but using that wording clearly shows they are not one and the same.

There is some kind of distinction between The Son and the Father, so that though 'one' God, it is multiple. I do not believe that distinction can be described in human terms, it is just a difference than what we have here, but without question there is a difference, because one died and the other did not.

It seems this "mystery" is in that there is no real physical way for us to describe what God is... but nonetheless I do think we can have a degree of comprehension from the Holy Spirit. I guess it's like Paul said after an experience that showed him wondrous things, but there was no way for him to explain it.

2Co 12:4  that he (Paul) was caught away to the paradise, and heard unutterable sayings, that it is not possible for man to speak.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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