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Jesus/soilders
Kat:
I have seen this discussion before here on the forum. Here is the Scripture mentioned that Jesus spoke.
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder (from Exo 20:13); and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.'
So it is an old covenant law "You shall not murder (done with malice)," lets not forget we are no longer under the old covenant, but now the new covenant, "but if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law" (Gal 5:18). Believers have a totally different standard than the world does.
You can take any hypothetical bad situation that can possibility arise, say a murderer/rapist set on evil enters your home... is the Lord not right there with you?
Psa 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all His ways, Gracious in all His works.
v. 18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, To all who call upon Him in truth.
v. 19 He will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him; He also will hear their cry and save them.
v. 20 The LORD preserves all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
Do we fear what a man can do or the Lord more? "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell/gehenna" (Mat 10:28). Is there a single Scripture that says it is okay to kill to protect yourself or even your family? Do we have any reference in Scripture to one of the believers using violence to protect themselves or family, even when most of them were being struck down and killed? We do have an incidence where Peter struck the high priest's servant with his sword and cut off his ear what did the Lord say...
Mat 26:52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
v. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?
What Christ said reminds me of a passage that I think of when these questions come up.
2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, "Alas, my master! What shall we do?"
v. 16 So he answered, "Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them."
v. 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, "LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see." Then the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
Just some of my thoughts on this.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
p.s. I will add that I think this is a much more difficult for a man, who is head of the household and considered protector of his family.
lilitalienboi16:
Regarding our defense, it is of God.
Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:53 "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?"
Romans 13:1 "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."
Romans 13:2 "Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."
Romans 12:17 "Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all."
As a man who intends to marry very soon to make his home right in the sight of God, I wrestle with the thought of doing nothing in the defense of my earthly family. However, I would be resisting God and through my actions declaring Him unfit to do with my life as He wills.
We are to be an offering unto God, our lives, we must trust Him fully.
Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."
Ephisians 5:1 "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children."
1 John 4:17 "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world."
Remember that it was by FAITH that all the patriarchs pleased God.
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the convinction of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:2 "For by it the elders obtained a good report."
Hebrews 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered unto God..."
Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that..."
Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet..."
Hebrews 11:8 "By faith Abraham..."
Hebrews 11:11 "Through faith also Sara herself received..."
Hebrews 11:20 "By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come."
Hebrews 11:21 "By faith Jacob, when he was a dying..."
Hebrews 11:22 "By faith Joseph, when he died,..."
Hebrews 11:23 " By faith Moses, when he was born..."
Hebrews 11:29 "By faith they passed through the Red..."
Hebrews 11:30 "By faith the walls of Jericho fell down..."
Hebrews 11:31 "By faith the harlot Rahab perished not..."
Hebrews 11:32 "And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:"
Hebrews 11:33 "Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions."
Hebrews 11:34 "Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens."
Hebrews 11:35 "Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:"
Hebrews 11:36 "And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:"
Hebrews 11:37 "They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;"
Hebrews 11:38 "(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth."
BY FAITH....TRUST GOD.
Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
God will always protect those that trust in Him and believe on Him.
Isaiah 33:22 "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us."
Psalm 46:1 "To the choirmaster. Of the Sons of Korah. According to Alamoth. A Song. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble."
Psalm 31:1-3 "In thee, O Lord, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in thy righteousness. Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me. For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me."
Psalm 7:10 "My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart."
Psalm 34:19 "Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all."
Psalm 34:7 "The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them."
Isaiah 51:7 "Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings."
Isaiah 51:12-13 "I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass; And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?"
So brethren I will repeat what was said once many many many years ago but is very relevent to us.
Acts 5:29 "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."
Matthew 10:16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
Obey God and trust Him!
Mark 11:22 "'Have faith in God,' Jesus answered."
Psalm 62:8 "Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah."
Matthew 14:30 "But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
Matthew 14:31 "And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, why did you doubt?"
God will repay those who do evil.
Rom 12:9-21 "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."
Philippians 4:4-8 "Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
God bless,
Alex
Rinus:
Hi Arion
If you could stand back and watch your country be attacked and your men be murdered,your brothers and sisters in christ, your children and their friends be raped and you have the means to protect them and yet do nothing then you can pat yourself on the back and believe that you did what God wanted you to do.
YES I STATED:"You cannot kill for anyone if you are a follower of christ.What?Are you against what i said?
You say :"God himself kills and yet is without sin". Now whats that got to do with my post to you?
You also say:"The commandment of course is that 'thou shalt not murder' and the commandment is true and good.'Again, whats this commandment got to do with my post to you? I didn't even speak about this commandment. My post was about what you said and i'll remind you. You said:"' If I'm armed and someone attempts to murder me, my wife, kids, ect then I'll defend them".
Remember that these countries that are attacking USA are trying to(I'll borrow your words from you statement) murder you, your wife, kids, and i 'll add your family, friends and other citizens and Yet YOU DO HAVE THE MEANS to protect them, you can join the army and go to war. Your government is giving you the means to protect them. You wanted the armour and means, well there you go!There's your means! But ofcoz you not gonna take those MEANS because you ARE NOT WILLING TO KILL ANYONE FOR CHRIST.
You say:"If you(thats me) could stand back and watch your wife be murdered, your children be raped and you have the means to protect them and yet do nothing then you can pat yourself on the back and believe that you did what God wanted you to do"
Well your country gives you the means to protect your family and yet you are doing nothing about it.So are you gonna pat yourself on the back?Can you live with your own conscience on this matter?
I must say though i understand.We love our family and i pray God doesn't put you(Arion) in such a hard and difficult position.
I pray that God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ will be good to you and give you peace.
rick:
This whole discussion leads me to believe that God’s intentions are no longer considered and that people have free reign of their will.
I don’t think anyone would disagree with me that the sermon on the mount is so beautiful but who can live by its message with their so called free will ?
When one ask, what would you do ( if )........I know you’ll do God’s intentions to the tee, nothing more and nothing less.
But lets not say, we will do this or that but lets say, if its Gods will, we will do this or that or maybe you think you direct your own footsteps and can do all the desires of your heart not remembering that God owns your next breath and when God takes back His spirit the only thing you’ll do is sleep until the resurrection. ;)
Kat:
Rick, it is very true what you say, we have no free will and that God certainly directs our every step. But we are all trying to learn how to live according to righteous from what we see instructed in the Scripture. That is what makes the Scripture that says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," have so much meaning to us.
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v. 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Yes we are totally dependent on God for everything, but we must (only by His Spirit) put into effect in our lives what we are learning and these discussion are our "working" it out in our minds first. First we study - discuss - learn these truths and come to an understanding, then we can apply what we have learned/believe. See what I mean?
I don't think we are saying 'this is how righteous I am and this is what I will do,' I think it's more like what we believe is the right thing to do and we are encouraging each other in that, by what we are seeing in Scripture. These discussion are a good thing and are helpful to many... I believe they are uplifting our God, certainly not trying to lift up ourselves (free will), not at all.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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