> General Discussions
144.000 ?
Ian 155:
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it doesn't work that way. It is the SUM of the word that is truth, not one individual verse interpreted by itself void of other witnesses.
Psalm 119:160 "The sum of thy word is truth,..."
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Actually the "sum" hebrew is The beginning it is in 3-4 translations , rendered SUM but that may imply "unless you put all the word together some word on its own may not be true, but when you add the words up they are (that is by comparison).
I am inclined to go with KJ and about 9 others on this one
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
DRB Psa 119:160 The beginning of thy words is truth: all the judgments of thy justice are for ever.
JB Hebrew Psa 119:160 The beginning of Thy word is truth; and all Thy righteous ordinance endureth for ever.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,... "every word is true"and every word is inspired by God
Interesting too is the word "WORD" greek it is spoken as in... "I give you my word" a promise or advice
Just a little side line I thought may be helpful when studying,
144000 represent all the true Jews ie spiritual Israel the 24 elders are the 12 sons of Abraham and the 12 disciples - I believe 12 Apostles rather as the death of Judas made the 12 disciple 1 short
this has a higher meaning bringing/grafting together the old 12 and the new 12 this is my understanding so....
dont take it to the bank
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on November 11, 2014, 01:17:28 AM ---
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it doesn't work that way. It is the SUM of the word that is truth, not one individual verse interpreted by itself void of other witnesses.
Psalm 119:160 "The sum of thy word is truth,..."
--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---
Actually the "sum" hebrew is The beginning it is in 3-4 translations , rendered SUM but that may imply "unless you put all the word together some word on its own may not be true, but when you add the words up they are (that is by comparison).
I am inclined to go with KJ and about 9 others on this one
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
DRB Psa 119:160 The beginning of thy words is truth: all the judgments of thy justice are for ever.
JB Hebrew Psa 119:160 The beginning of Thy word is truth; and all Thy righteous ordinance endureth for ever.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,... "every word is true"and every word is inspired by God
Interesting too is the word "WORD" greek it is spoken as in... "I give you my word" a promise or advice
Just a little side line I thought may be helpful when studying,
144000 represent all the true Jews ie spiritual Israel the 24 elders are the 12 sons of Abraham and the 12 disciples - I believe 12 Apostles rather as the death of Judas made the 12 disciple 1 short
this has a higher meaning bringing/grafting together the old 12 and the new 12 this is my understanding so....
dont take it to the bank
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International Standard Version "The sum of your word is truth, and each righteous ordinance of yours is everlasting."
English Standard Version "The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever."
New American Standard Bible "The sum of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting. Shin."
Holman Christian Standard Bible "The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous judgments endure forever. "
American Standard Version "The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever."
Darby Bible Translation "The sum of thy word is truth, and every righteous judgment of thine is for ever."
English Revised Version "The sum of thy word is truth; and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."
Young's Literal Translation "The sum of Thy word is truth, And to the age is every judgment of Thy righteousness!"
Concordat Literal Version "The sum of Your word is truth, And all of Your righteous ordinances are eonian."
Biblos Interlinear Bible "The sum of your word is truth..."
Rotterdam "The sum of thy word, is truth, and, age-abiding, is every one of thy righteous regulations. "
The list goes on and on.
3-4 Translations????
Here is the word the KJV translates "beginning" according to strongs;
H7218
רֹאשׁ
rô'sh
roshe
band, captain, company,
From an unused root apparently meaning to shake; the head (as most easily shaken), whether literal or figurative (in many applications, of place, time, rank, itc.) -- band, beginning, captain, chapiter, chief(-est place, man, things), company, end, X every (man), excellent, first, forefront, ((be-))head, height, (on) high(-est part, (priest)), X lead, X poor, principal, ruler, sum, top.
In exodus 30:12 the KJV translates this word you argue as beginning into SUM.
Exo 30:12 "WhenH3588 thou takestH5375 (H853) the sumH7218 of the childrenH1121 of IsraelH3478 after their number,H6485 then shall they giveH5414 every manH376 a ransomH3724 for his soulH5315 unto the LORD,H3068 when thou numberestH6485 them; that there beH1961 noH3808 plagueH5063 among them, when thou numberestH6485 them. "
Exo 30:12 "When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number,"
Here the KJV does it again as SUM
Numbers 1:2 "Take ye the sum of all the congregation..."
Num 1:2 "TakeH5375 ye(H853) the sumH7218 of allH3605 the congregationH5712"
And again...
Numbers 4:22 "Take also the sum of the sons"
Here are all the occurrences of the word if you want to check it yourself: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/rosh_7218.htm
Its almost never translated beginning but mostly the top/head and taking into account the sentence structure can be translated accurately as SUM.
7 =sum, especially in phrase ׳בְּנֵייִֿשׂ ׳נָשָׂא אֶתרֿ Exodus 30:12take the sum of, enumerate, compare Numbers 1:2,49; Numbers 4:2,22; Numbers 26:2; Numbers 31:26,49; בְּראֹשׁוֺ Leviticus 5:24 in its sum, i.e. in full, so Numbers 5:7 (all P); of ׳יs thoughts Psalm 139:17; compare ראֹשׁ דְּבָֽרְךָ אֱמֶתPsalm 119:160.
Here is a link to its various uses according to strong scroll down and you'll find 7 which pertains to its uses as SUM: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7218.htm
Furthermore, The word "beginning" as seen in Genesis is a totally different word.
Proverb 11:14 "Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety."
In the mouth of two or three witnesses, in the multitude of counselors, taking ACCOUNT for the SUM of the word, there IS safety for no piece of scripture is at all becoming its OWN interpretation.
In Christ ,
Alex
P.S. We know the KJV contains gross mistranslation such as eternal, forever, hell, etc... and the bibles that translate off it perpetuate those mistakes. The literal versions and then some (pun intended) translate it as "SUM of thy word."
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Mike Gagne on November 11, 2014, 03:13:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on November 11, 2014, 10:28:05 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on November 11, 2014, 01:17:28 AM ---
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it doesn't work that way. It is the SUM of the word that is truth, not one individual verse interpreted by itself void of other witnesses.
Psalm 119:160 "The sum of thy word is truth,..."
--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---
Actually the "sum" hebrew is The beginning it is in 3-4 translations , rendered SUM but that may imply "unless you put all the word together some word on its own may not be true, but when you add the words up they are (that is by comparison).
I am inclined to go with KJ and about 9 others on this one
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
DRB Psa 119:160 The beginning of thy words is truth: all the judgments of thy justice are for ever.
JB Hebrew Psa 119:160 The beginning of Thy word is truth; and all Thy righteous ordinance endureth for ever.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,... "every word is true"and every word is inspired by God
Interesting too is the word "WORD" greek it is spoken as in... "I give you my word" a promise or advice
Just a little side line I thought may be helpful when studying,
144000 represent all the true Jews ie spiritual Israel the 24 elders are the 12 sons of Abraham and the 12 disciples - I believe 12 Apostles rather as the death of Judas made the 12 disciple 1 short
this has a higher meaning bringing/grafting together the old 12 and the new 12 this is my understanding so....
dont take it to the bank
--- End quote ---
International Standard Version "The sum of your word is truth, and each righteous ordinance of yours is everlasting."
English Standard Version "The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever."
New American Standard Bible "The sum of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting. Shin."
Holman Christian Standard Bible "The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous judgments endure forever. "
American Standard Version "The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever."
Darby Bible Translation "The sum of thy word is truth, and every righteous judgment of thine is for ever."
English Revised Version "The sum of thy word is truth; and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."
Young's Literal Translation "The sum of Thy word is truth, And to the age is every judgment of Thy righteousness!"
Concordat Literal Version "The sum of Your word is truth, And all of Your righteous ordinances are eonian."
Biblos Interlinear Bible "The sum of your word is truth..."
Rotterdam "The sum of thy word, is truth, and, age-abiding, is every one of thy righteous regulations. "
The list goes on and on.
3-4 Translations????
Here is the word the KJV translates "beginning" according to strongs;
H7218
רֹאשׁ
rô'sh
roshe
band, captain, company,
From an unused root apparently meaning to shake; the head (as most easily shaken), whether literal or figurative (in many applications, of place, time, rank, itc.) -- band, beginning, captain, chapiter, chief(-est place, man, things), company, end, X every (man), excellent, first, forefront, ((be-))head, height, (on) high(-est part, (priest)), X lead, X poor, principal, ruler, sum, top.
In exodus 30:12 the KJV translates this word you argue as beginning into SUM.
Exo 30:12 "WhenH3588 thou takestH5375 (H853) the sumH7218 of the childrenH1121 of IsraelH3478 after their number,H6485 then shall they giveH5414 every manH376 a ransomH3724 for his soulH5315 unto the LORD,H3068 when thou numberestH6485 them; that there beH1961 noH3808 plagueH5063 among them, when thou numberestH6485 them. "
Exo 30:12 "When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number,"
Here the KJV does it again as SUM
Numbers 1:2 "Take ye the sum of all the congregation..."
Num 1:2 "TakeH5375 ye(H853) the sumH7218 of allH3605 the congregationH5712"
And again...
Numbers 4:22 "Take also the sum of the sons"
Here are all the occurrences of the word if you want to check it yourself: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/rosh_7218.htm
Its almost never translated beginning but mostly the top/head and taking into account the sentence structure can be translated accurately as SUM.
7 =sum, especially in phrase ׳בְּנֵייִֿשׂ ׳נָשָׂא אֶתרֿ Exodus 30:12take the sum of, enumerate, compare Numbers 1:2,49; Numbers 4:2,22; Numbers 26:2; Numbers 31:26,49; בְּראֹשׁוֺ Leviticus 5:24 in its sum, i.e. in full, so Numbers 5:7 (all P); of ׳יs thoughts Psalm 139:17; compare ראֹשׁ דְּבָֽרְךָ אֱמֶתPsalm 119:160.
Here is a link to its various uses according to strong scroll down and you'll find 7 which pertains to its uses as SUM: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7218.htm
Furthermore, The word "beginning" as seen in Genesis is a totally different word.
Proverb 11:14 "Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety."
In the mouth of two or three witnesses, in the multitude of counselors, taking ACCOUNT for the SUM of the word, there IS safety for no piece of scripture is at all becoming its OWN interpretation.
In Christ ,
Alex
P.S. We know the KJV contains gross mistranslation such as eternal, forever, hell, etc... and the bibles that translate off it perpetuate those mistakes. The literal versions and then some (pun intended) translate it as "SUM of thy word."
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. Wouldn't this last quote be teaching?, and is teaching ok here? 😀 just thought someone early in a different post said no teaching!
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Hello Mike,
Which part of my post do you feel is teaching that is contrary to what ray or the scriptures say?
Kindly,
Alex
Kat:
Mike, yes there is an 'no teaching' rule.
There are a lot of articles on the BT site and it is difficult to keep up with all that is taught there, so we can come in here and ask questions and discuss things. What one needs to be careful of is that when we discuss things 'in our own words' we need to be careful it is in keeping with what Ray taught. Now I know that takes a little discernment, but that's what we are learning to do and that's where others that are well studied in what Ray taught helps.
So it helps to have a good background of what Ray taught and then we can discuss things and learn from each other.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ian 155:
lol
Alex im not gonna get banned over this ...
if sum suits you - dat cool however SUM is not found in original manuscripts
This was something I came across and looked it up albeit not thoroughly and thought it may be of interest to members
I probably should have clarified 3-4 translations -
3-4 translations of 12 on my e-sword,alone
Sum Does not feature in the original 7760. sum or sim ►. Strong's Concordance. sum or sim: to put, place, set.[/b]
... כְּפַר הָעַמּוֺנִי see כָּפָר above Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.
bribe, pitch, ransom, satisfaction, sum of money, village. ...
I dont even think Sum is Anglo saxon I think it is much later as opposed to beginning which i think fits better and seems to be closer to the original, but that is my opinion
Hebrew equivalent "beginning" from rosh Definition ...beginning,chief
NASB Translation...beginning (19), choice (2), choicest (3), finest (2), first (16), first fruits (7), foremost (2).
This scripture in psalms seems to point to Jesus,Yes? (Now i am almost certain you don't think the word Sum does Jesus Justice )
and as I said... SUM may imply be construed as ..." unless you put all the word together, some of the word,on its own, may not be true, but when you add the words up they are true (that is by comparison)" this I believe is blasphemy.
This,above,was an explanation I found while checking on a totally different issue with Kat. So it may have been better placed on another board but since you had just quoted that scripture ...I put it up in that particular chat or whatever you call it.
Here are some other variations I have found ---not on my e sword
This one 1st up is from "Ian's concise, living, authorised ,standard,scriptural,literal red bible"
Psalm 160 "The first fruits of your word is true" (think I should patent it) ;)
New International Version
All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.
New Living Translation
The very essence of your words is truth; all your just regulations will stand forever.
King James Bible
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The entirety of Your word is truth, and all Your righteous judgments endure forever.
International Standard Version
The sum of your word is truth, and each righteous ordinance of yours is everlasting.
NET Bible
Your instructions are totally reliable; all your just regulations endure.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The origin of your word is the truth and all the judgments of your righteousness are for eternity.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
There is nothing but truth in your word, and all of your righteous regulations endure forever.
King James 2000 Bible
Your word is true from the beginning: and every one of your righteous judgments endures forever.
American King James Version
Your word is true from the beginning: and every one of your righteous judgments endures for ever.
American Standard Version
The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.
Douay-Rheims Bible
The beginning of thy words is truth: all the judgments of thy justice are for ever.
Webster's Bible Translation
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
World English Bible
All of your words are truth. Every one of your righteous ordinances endures forever. SIN AND SHIN
Young's Literal Translation
The sum of Thy word is truth, And to the age is every judgment of Thy righteousness!
Douay-Rheims Bible
(ABP+) The beginning G746 G3588 of your words G3056 G1473 is truth;G225 and G2532 into G1519 the G3588 eon G165 are all G3956 the G3588 judgments G2917 G3588 of your righteousness.G1343 G1473
(ASV) The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.
(CEV) All you say can be trusted; your teachings are true and will last forever.
(DRB) The beginning of thy words is truth: all the judgments of thy justice are for ever.
(ERV) Every word you say can be trusted. Your laws are fair and will last forever.
(JPS) The beginning of Thy word is truth; and all Thy righteous ordinance endureth for ever.
(KJV) Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
(KJV) Thy word H1697 is true H571 from the beginning:H7218 and every one H3605 of thy righteous H6664 judgments H4941 endureth for ever.H5769
Vs psalm 130
The declaration of thy words giveth light: and giveth
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple .
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The revelation of Your words brings light and gives understanding to the inexperienced.
New American Standard Bible
The unfolding of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple
Parallel Strong's
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The revelation of Your words brings light and gives understanding to the inexperienced.
New American Standard Bible
The unfolding of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple.
King James Bible
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Parallel Verses
New International Version
The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.
New Living Translation
The teaching of your word gives light, so even the simple can understand.
English Standard Version
The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple.
New American Standard Bible
The unfolding of Your words gives light; It gives understanding to the simple.
King James Bible
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The revelation of Your words brings light and gives understanding to the inexperienced.
International Standard Version
The disclosure of your words illuminates, providing understanding to the simple.
NET Bible
Your instructions are a doorway through which light shines. They give insight to the untrained.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Open your word and shine and give understanding to young children.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Your word is a doorway that lets in light, and it helps gullible people understand.
King James 2000 Bible
The entrance of your words gives light; it gives understanding unto the simple.
American King James Version
The entrance of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.
American Standard Version
The opening of thy words giveth light; It giveth understanding unto the simple.
Douay-Rheims Bible
The declaration of thy words giveth light: and giveth understanding to little ones.
Darby Bible Translation
The entrance of thy words giveth light, giving understanding unto the simple.
English Revised Version
The opening of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Webster's Bible Translation
The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple.
World English Bible
The entrance of your words gives light. It gives understanding to the simple.
Young's Literal Translation
The opening of Thy words enlighteneth, Instructing the simple.
Ok ? this was not a challenge this was supposed to be of interest, that was my motive an even bigger one is the word WORD, I found that fascinating
Ian
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