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Author Topic: ray on god and satan  (Read 1604 times)

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ryman

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ray on god and satan
« on: November 15, 2014, 02:49:31 AM »

I watched most of the vids and heard most audios.....good stuff.

Although he seemed uncertain in his 2011 is Jesus God videos?

I have come to the solid belief that jesus is not God the one true God...

I think most of the enigma goes away once its seen that scripture never says Jesus is God.

Anyone else believe this?

I also see Satan and the devil as a personification of our evil hearts.....not an actual being that caused evil by God telling him what to do.....

Makes all those times Jesus talked to Satan that much more intense..... Seeing that that's what was going on in his head......exactly like us....he was a man being tempted by his own self. What do you think? Same with eve....
She told herself she wouldn't die..... Spiritually weak right from the start like ray said.....they sinned before they physically bit this fruit.
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Rinus

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Re: ray on god and satan
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2014, 06:59:48 AM »

Howzit Ryman

Read the lake of fire Part 9 and u'll notice ur mistakes.

Jesus was not talking to His evil heart when He was tempted.He was talking to the DEVIL.Jesus doesn't have an evil heart.He was not tempted by Himself as u state.He was tempted by the devil.

Matt 4:1 "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the DEVIL(not to be tempted of Himself).

But yeah,like I said read Lake of Fire part 9
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indianabob

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Re: ray on god and satan
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2014, 10:00:19 AM »


Hi Ryman,

Your comment is not what Ray taught as far as I understand, but if you wish to explore the definitions of what God is/is not, maybe we could do that in the personal space rather than where other new members could be misunderstanding and confused.

Warm regards, Indiana Bob


I watched most of the vids and heard most audios.....good stuff.

Although he seemed uncertain in his 2011 is Jesus God videos?

I have come to the solid belief that jesus is not God the one true God...

I think most of the enigma goes away once its seen that scripture never says Jesus is God.

Anyone else believe this?

I also see Satan and the devil as a personification of our evil hearts.....not an actual being that caused evil by God telling him what to do.....

Makes all those times Jesus talked to Satan that much more intense..... Seeing that that's what was going on in his head......exactly like us....he was a man being tempted by his own self. What do you think? Same with eve....
She told herself she wouldn't die..... Spiritually weak right from the start like ray said.....they sinned before they physically bit this fruit.
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Kat

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Re: ray on god and satan
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2014, 10:01:39 AM »


Here are some emails where this was discussed.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2909.0.html ----------

First, John 1:1 (I checked this verse in three translations including the KJ, and each one read word for word the same) says that the word was God.  Does this mean Jesus was God?
     
    COMMENT:  Yes, and Jesus still is God.
     
      Did Jesus cease to be God when he became incarnate?
     
    COMMENT:  I really dislike questions like this. It's kinda like "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
    What do you MEAN by "cease?"  One day Jesus WAS God and the next day Jesus WAS.......what?  A different person? A different being?  The Bible tells us that Jesus came in the "likeness" [similarity,not exactness] of
    sinful flesh, but didn't sin, and was emptied of His internal powers so that He would be subject to death, and to
    live a life in the flesh that we are to emulate, etc.  But I would never use the term "He CEASED to be God."
    Why do you ask that?  Do you think Jesus "CEASED" to be God.  Jesus did all that He did in the flesh through and by the power of His Father. But, having His Father by His side, He could do anything He wanted to:  walk on water, heal the sick, conquor the world, raise the dead.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3052.0.html --------------

Dear Christopher:

    "God" is not the personal last name of Jesus' Father. God is more like a title, more like "Christ," which is not Jesus' last name either, but a title--Jesus is THE CHRIST, and Jesus is GOD.

    If One is:

    THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH (Col. 1:15-18)

    POSSESSING IMMORTAL LIFE.(John 17:1-3)

    HAS ALL POWER IN HEAVEN AND EARTH (Matt. 28:18)

    Then that One IS GOD!  Jesus filfills all three of those

    statements of fact, as does His Father. That is why

    Both Jesus and His Father are ONE (John 10:30).

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3443.msg25690#msg25690 ----

Dear Christopher:


Ah, but the Scriptures do refer to Jesus Christ as "God."

[1]  "But unto the SON [Jesus] He says, Thy throne, O GOD..." (Heb. 1:08).

[2]  "I am Alpha and Omega...says the Lord [Jesus[, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY [GOD]"  (Rev. 1:08).

[3]  "And Thomas answered and said unto Him [Jesus], My Lord, AND MY GOD" (John 20:28).

[4]  "Who [Jesus] being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD" (Phil. 2:6).

[5]  "Why doth this Man [Jesus] thus speak blasphemies?  Who can forgive sins, BUT GOD ONLY?" (Mark 2:08).

[6]  "Now unto Him [Jesus] that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His [Jesus] glory with exceeding joy. To the only wise GOD OUR SAVIOUR [Jesus Christ], be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen" (Jude 24-25).

One or two of these it could be argued refers to God the Father. But there are enough statements to prove Jesus wears the title "God."  Then, there is the whole matter of Jesus Himself being the "God" of the Old Testament which spoke to men, etc., seeing that the Father has never spoken to any man directly with a voice, and Jesus and the God the Old Testament did.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3316.msg24692#msg24692 -----------

    Dear Elizabeth:
    I'm afraid this is one of those questions that it would first take ten pages to explain what we mean
by "God." What constitutes "God?" Was Jesus "God?' when He was in the flesh? ETc., etc., etc.,   etc.  "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US"  (Matt. 1:23).  Well now, was Jesus "a man with us" or "GOD with us?" Some claim that Jesus WAS THE FATHER IN FLESH. Makes one wonder who in the world Jesus prayed to if that were the case?  Did He pray to HIMSELF?  On the other hand, there are now those trying to deceive bible-truth.com readers into believing that Jesus was so totally FLESH, that "He was MADE SIN" rather than made "a sin OFFERING."  Jesus was a MAN with the MIND OF GOD. Jesus "emptied" (Phil. 2:5, "But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and WAS [Greek for 'was' means "EMPTIED"]...." My margin says: "emptied himself of His privileges."  Jesus gave up many of His prior privileges when He was made a littler lower than the angels for the express purpose of being able to DIE (Heb. 2:9).  Notice that He was "crowned with GLORY and honour," yet He gave up much of His glory in becoming human, and that is why He prayed that His Father would RESTORE
the glories that He had with His Father from before the foundation of the world (John 17:5). Etc.
     
    I'm sorry, but nearly 99% of all questions asked of me in emails are entirely too long for an email. I could easily spend a week or two researching and writing on this very question you ask. The Bible is not nearly as "simple" and Christians claim that it is. It will probably take me 60 pages to explain Matt. 5:22 and Matt. 10:28 in my upcoming Installment on Hell Part D. The more difficult Scriptures and concepts (as the one you just asked me), are tied to every other Scripture and concept in the entirety of the Bible.  People have no concept of absolutely how PRECISE one must be in his words and explanations of these things, or it will contradict some verse somewhere.  Maybe God has given me an ability to make difficult things understandable and seemingly "simple."  Nothing, however, is SIMPLE in the Scriptures.  If it were, not every major doctrine of Christendom would be UNscriptural.  Hope you understand.
    God be with you,
    Ray

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Rick

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Re: ray on god and satan
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2014, 10:19:24 AM »

Hello ryman.

Jesus is absolutely God. He is our creator, everything that was created was created by Jesus.

We have a God and Jesus has a God but God has no God.

There is only one God, God the Father.  :)
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To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

lilitalienboi16

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Re: ray on god and satan
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2014, 01:21:00 PM »

Hi Ryman,

Ray most certainly believed that Jesus was God. I'll just add some witnesses that may have been shared already to this discussion.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 John 1:3 All things were made by him[JESUS]; and without him[JESUS] was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he[JESUS] hath declared him[THE FATHER].

1 Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
1 Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1 Col 1:16 For by him[JESUS] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
1 Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him [JESUS] all things consist.
1 Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1 Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him [JESUS] should all fulness dwell;

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Cor 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

"But to us there is but one God: The Father.... and ... Jesus Christ."

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 01:51:11 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Dennis Vogel

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Re: ray on god and satan
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 03:33:55 PM »

We've been through this before so I'm locking this topic.
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