> General Discussions

All sin leads to death and...

(1/7) > >>

Ian 155:
All sin leads to death however we have this

1Jn 5:16  If any man see his brother sin a sin "which is"  not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. ""= spurious

(1Jn 5:17)  All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.


there is A sin....?

lilitalienboi16:
Hello Ian,

This does seem like a curious statement. This is how I see it right now. Feel free to agree or disagree, just sharing.

Firstly, I think its important to address the matter of "death" as seen in these verses.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

So with that in mind, there are certain sins where we are admonished to deliver that person up unto satan for the destruction of the flesh that they may be saved.

1 Corinthians 5

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I think paul's example is more apt as to its relevance to what John said about a sin being unto death, or delivering up for destruction, but there is also this in Matthew that pertains to "excommunication" as it might be termed by some:

Matthew 18:15-17
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Now we also have examples where we are to be forgiving one another. Perhaps this is what John is talking about when he says making "requests" and then NOT making requests. I'll share that verse as you have it from concordant after this.

Luke 17:3-4 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

2 Thess 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thess 3:11-14 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

So now back to your verse:

1Jn 5:15 And if ever we are aware that He is hearing us, whatever we may be requesting, we are aware that we have the requests which we have requested from Him."
1Jn 5:16 If anyone should be perceiving his brother sinning a sin not to death, he shall be requesting, and He will be giving him life for those sinning not to death. There is a sin to death: I am not saying that he should be asking concerning that."
1Jn 5:17 All injustice is sin, and there is a sin not to death."

I really see a very close relationship to this verse and what Paul says in Corinthians. Either way, it appears from these different verses that this is a complex matter as far as discerning when we are to forgive, separate ourselves, or deliver one up unto satan for the destruction of the flesh.

As for the specific "A sin..." I feel that there could be many sins that are not "unto death" (Worthy of deliverance unto satan for destruction of the flesh) and I don't think John is saying that there is only ONE That is not unto death so much as he is saying if a person commits A SIN of THE category or type that pertains to those which do not lead to death then make your requests for him (pray for him etc..). You can really see that when you look at "a sin" in 5:17 in the context of how "a sin" was stated in 5:16.

Feel free to agree or disagree.

In Christ,
Alex

rick:
This subject is confusing to me because I believe if one is of god’s elect their salvation is guaranteed so it would be impossible to sin a sin which leads to death concerning the elect.

Christ is the author and finisher of our faith, so to say one of the elect can sin a sin that leads to death is to say Christ failed as Christendom believes He will. 

Also one who is not the elect can sin whatever sin they sin and their salvation is still guaranteed as they emerged from God’s judgement from the lake of fire.

Perhaps the translation is off, maybe, I’m not really sure tho.  ???

lilitalienboi16:
Great addition rick!

Yes, the second death, the lake of fire. That brings it full circle in my humble opinion. To sin a sin to death is to become subject to the second death which we know those who overcome will have no part in. In my opinion, this all harmonizes nicely together; However, I am totally open to more input but I think you added some great food for thought rick.

As you pointed out, its not possible for the elect to be deceived or end up in the lake of fire ("sin a sin that leads to death") but you have to remember that we ourselves do not know who the elect are so from our perspective all these admonishments must be taken seriously.

God bless,
Alex

Kat:

Okay I believe these Scripture are additional witnesses, that show that the believers are to help one another if we see somebody needs help in understanding.

James 5:19  My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,
v. 20  let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Gal 6:1  Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

This makes it clear that we should help another brother/believer who we think is being drawn astray into falsehood. This is the same thing that the Scripture in 1 John is speaking of, I will put my comments in brackets.

1John 5:16  If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin (an error/sin, but not so grave as to have lead them totally astray yet, so...) which does not lead to (spiritual) death (in this lifetime), he will ask (pray to God and if it's according to His will), and He will give him life (return that one to a right understanding) for those who commit sin not leading to (spiritual) death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

Now this is speaking of a "brother," or somebody that believes these truth... but are all brothers/believers elect? What I mean is does everybody that starts out and shares this understanding of the truth go on to be faithful to the end and are actually an elect? What about the wheat and the tare? They go all the way to the end among the elect (and even appear to be elect) before they are separated (Matt 13). Now there is also Scripture that speaks of somebody who is "enlightened," yet do "fall away" and that cannot be brought back to the truth in this lifetime, or as it's put at the end of 1John 5:16 "...there is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that."

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
v. 5  and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
v. 6  if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Now this seems to be speaking of those that do receive and even embrace this truth, but do not continue in it for one reason or another... makes me think of the parable of the sower and the seed.

Luke 8:11  "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
v. 12  Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
v. 13  But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
v. 14  Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
v. 15  But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Hope that is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page