> Off Topic Discussions
Deleted
Rhys 🕊:
Good point about the judging. I am referring to this sort:
Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Joh 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."
Using right judgement is what it's about than just what things appear to be, something I am still guilty of now and then.
Need to see the bigger picture and that is what the cop saw
Rhys
Gina:
But I’m telling you, why you’ll only see a speck. Because you’re not living by faith and your living by sight and the carnality of the mind, through sight and what you see. When that sight is impeded you don’t see very well, so you think your brother has a speck in his eye, he does not. He has a beam in his eye too. But you can’t see it with a beam in your eye. Are you following this? You can’t see it with a beam in your eye. If you get that beam out and you say, 'OH! I thought it was a speck, it’s a beam!'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html
Jesus didn't say not judge at all. He said, You hypocrite! [to his own disciples] First get the beam out of your eye and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
They were yet carnal. They had not received the gift of the Holy Spirit, they were unconverted. They were totally blind. [Jesus said they were blind: "If the blind lead the blind both will fall into a ditch.] They didn't have the mentality, or the mind of Christ, with which to judge their brother correctly because they had yet to judge themselves.
Is that about right, Rhys?
Rhys 🕊:
That's the one
I wish I could explain as good as Ray did in that passage
Rhys ;)
lilitalienboi16:
I don't think paul was admonishing brothers and sisters, beloved, chosen of God, the saints, "my church," to judge the ungodly and the world but rather to JUDGE THEMSELVES. That is, each man to judge himself, BECAUSE one day we will judge the world. For now though, we voluntarily judge ourselves because Christ helps us judge ourselves that we should not be condemned with the world. Gehenna fire. Leave the world and all its issues to God. He is running the show and its all going acccording to His plan. For us, we mind ourselves, "oh man," and the beam in our own eye, until we overcome, endure to the end--are saved.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
If every member of the body of Christ judged him/herself, no matter of the church would ever go before the pagan world and there would be no need to judge your brother (the "you hypocrite!" part), and instead would be subject to the rule of God and His righteous judgments. His gehenna Fire.
There are verses that place an emphasis on not judging a brother in Christ besides what was stated in the sermon:
Romans 10-13 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way."
James 4:11 "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."
James 4:12 "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?"
So with this, and the sermon on the mount, I see an emphasis on judging ourselves, don't judge your brother or the world. God is dealing with your brothers and sisters in the fire of Gehenna, and He is doing with the world as He see's fit. The time will come to judge the world (not your brothers) but it is not now. For now, we are HID in Christ.
This is how I see it when considering "the sum of thy word." Feel free to agree or disagree.
God bless,
Alex
Gina:
--- Quote from: Rhys on December 20, 2014, 10:35:36 PM ---That's the one
I wish I could explain as good as Ray did in that passage
Rhys ;)
--- End quote ---
Me too. I just wonder if we have this judging thing figured out. I mean, Jesus called his own disciples "hypocrites," after he tells them to not judge.
And then he goes: " do not give that which is holy to the dogs or throw your pearls before swine."
Don't judge your brother. Then he calls the pharisees snakes, fools, and hypocrites.
Obviously calling someone what they are or saying what they are doing isn't judging them or condemning them, because if that were the case, then Romans Chapter 1 and some of the words in the gospels need to be deleted.
I believe is a difference between judging, condemning and confrontation. Most people don't like confrontation. I don't mind it so much. But I don't want to cut off someone's ear, either, or descend into arguments that aren't profitable.
At one point, Paul was livid with the Corinthians because they were "proud," because they were allowing some man who was in bed with his father's wife to remain in their church. He said, why are you proud? Get the mofro out! [ okay he didn't say mofro, I think he called him an infidel] Turn him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. I mean, back in Romans 2, he just got finished telling them not to judge!
Obviously we're talking about two different things here and not understanding what judgment and condemnation is. I believe that Jesus and Paul are talking about judging and condemning under the physical laws of the land, the same laws that were later jumbled up by the pharisees. But it's obviously hardly judging or condemning to call someone what they are or to be saying, hey - you're doing such and such, that's wrong! That's not judging because if it were, then Paul and Jesus couldn't tell the Romans and Corinthians and the disciples what they were doing was wrong. Nobody could tell anybody they're doing wrong!
And then, there was another time where he told Timothy to admonish them once or twice and after that to reject -- those want to argue about the law [of Moses] and geanologies and this and that and the other. He said, admonish them once or twice, and after that reject. So clearly, rejection is not judging or condemning someone. Nor is handing someone over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh, condemning or judging.
So, I'm trying to understand what this "not judge or condemn" thing is really meaning.
I mean, for instance, Alex (not to start a war or whatever) told me that I was sowing discord with my post and wanting to get political. Clearly that was not him judging me. That was just how he saw what I was doing because of the things I was saying to Rick - who was actually the one who started it :P he got political. Which is not to judge Rick at all, but that's what he was doing -- getting political and judging the woman under the laws of our land.
I mean, I'm glad we don't live in Iran or some country where the penalty for stealing is literally cutting off someone's hand! Both Alex and Rick agreed, that the woman deserved to be judged and punished according to our human laws.
And neither one of them have come back and said, wow, I see that I was wrong! But that's okay. I understand why. It was not easy to admit that the post was sowing discord. It was not easy to take down the link because I truly thought as I said in my original post that "This is a beautiful story." I mean, wow. It was not easy to admit that I fell to the flesh, but what choice did I have? It wasn't easy to put up the story later on, and then get ridiculed for that, too.
Had I known that it was going to devolve into Tiny Tim posts, I promise you all I would have never posted this topic or put up a link. I think I'll delete my story too.
Anyway, Alex, I'm sorry, I see you posted something, but I have not read it. And so I can't agree or disagree. I'll just be over here getting this big log out of my eye if anyone wants me.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version