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Resurrection of the dead in Matthew 27?
Kat:
Okay Dave I found some of Ray's teaching on this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,839.0.html ----------------------------
Of course. Soloman was the wisest man ever to grace the face of the earth except for Jesus Christ. Men of the Old Testament were saved just as we of the New Testament times are. We are saved through faith, just as Abraham was. As we look back in History to Christ, the men of the Old Testament looked forward in the future to Christ. The sacrifices that were made did not save man, they were really just a putting off of sin until Christ did come. All throughout the Old Testament God revealed Christ through prophecy. The tabernacle, and all ofits surroundings, furniture, priestly robes, etc. all picture Christ in some way. The alter represents Christ's sacrificial death, the laver represents Him as the living water and cleanser of our sin. The Table of shewbread, bread of Life. Candlestick- light of the world. Incens e alter- our Great High Priest and intercessor. Mercy seat- merciful God. Manna- Jesus again as the Bread of Life and our sustenance, our Spiritual sustenance. Yes, Soloman knew about Christ. Did he know His name was to be Jesus, a form of the name Joshua? No. Men of the old testament knew Him as Immanuel, the Son of The Most High God. Do not think me ignorant, I am not trying to put you down or attack you. I am only trying to pursuade you to study your Bible spiritually as well as logically. Dave
Dear Dave:
Your teachings are neither spiritual, nor logical, nor Scriptural. Perhaps you should study your bible a little more.
What did any of the ancient patriarchs know of "saving grace?" Answer: Nothing! And why is that? Because: "For the LAW was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:18). Grace did not come before Christ, hence: No one was saved before Christ. "These ALL died in faith [how many? 'ALL.'] in faith [did they all have faith? Yes. Are we 'saved by faith?' NO--'By GRACE ye are saved....' Eph. 2:8. Did they nonetheless receive the promise of immortal life? NO....] NOT having received the promises..." (Heb. 11:13).
Could not the Patriarchs receive salvation through the faith that they had BEFORE Jesus came to die for their sins? NO. No Patriarch will be saved except through God's chosen elect: "And these ALL [how many? 'ALL'] having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT THE PROMISES: God having provided some better thing for US, that THEY without US should NOT be made perfect [Gk: 'complete.']" (Heb. 11:13 & 39-40).
Well then, if their faith and good report did not and cannot make them 'complete,' pray what can make them 'complete?' Answer: "And ye ['ye' believers in Jesus, not those who knew not Jesus and did not have Jesus live in them, and who were not 'crucified with Christ,' etc., etc., etc.]...and ye are COMPLETE [how?] IN H-I-M [JESUS]" (Col. 2:10), etc., etc., etc.
Sometimes, Dave, it is also good to have a 'teacher' to help you understand the things that you miss by studying on your own.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4240.0.html -----------------------
Mr. Ray
My name is Joshua. I am writing about two things I saw in your website. Even though a lot of your stuff is truth, some of it is not. Not everyone is going to be saved, and not everyone is going to heaven. It says in the bible, in the book of revelation, " Those whose name was NOT found in the lambs book of life were cast into the lake of fire. " People say " Why would a loving God send people to Hell? " Well the answer is simple, he doesn't. People send themselves when they decide NOT to follow Jesus. It is called free-will. Also about the trinity. Read John chapter 1. It says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word clearly being Jesus .... BECAUSE later in this chapter it says " The Word became flesh. " I dont care if you respond, because if you do, you will probably degrade me like you do a lot of these people. Like when you call them " dumb " and " wretched. " I am sorry, but that is not the personality of a Man of God. I will be praying for you brother. God Bless.
Dear Joshua: You and the whole world of Christendom "ASSUME" certain things by certain verses of Scripture. You are "assuming" that if one does not have his name written in the Life of the Lamb's book of life, that that person will then be lost for all eternity. Or that if one is thrown into "the lake of fire," he is unsaved for ever. These are all false assumptions. Death is not the final destiny of anyone. The lake of fire is not the final destiny of anyone. These are also false, unscriptural assumptions.
Look at the "destiny" of the Patriots and Fathers of the Old Testament. Did they "die and go to heaven," as it so foolishly taught by Christendom? NO. Not even Enoch and Elijah. They ALL DIED, and not one of them "received a promise that was given them by God." Let's read it:
"These [those mentioned above: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah--and those that follow later in this chapter]...These ALL DIED in faith, NOT having received the promises...." (Heb. 11:13). Hebrews was written many many centuries AFTER all of these godly men died, and according to the author of Hebrews, they did not and had not YET received the promises. Imagine that: Dead for centuries and have NOT received their promises. But, they will, in the yet future, after the resurrection of the dead to judgment (Verses 39-40). The lake of fire is judgment; it is not ETERNAL TORTURE. And the Judgments of God bring godly righteousness: "When THY JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9). What good is it if we do not believe ALL the Scriptures.
The "trinity" doctrine is not false based on whether Jesus is deserving of the title "God," but rather on whether the Holy Spirit OF God the Father, is indeed separateate "person" from God the Father. The Holy Spirit is NOT A PERSON. It is GOD'S spirit. Jesus was "conceived" by this Spirit OF the Father, and that is why Jesus is "the SON OF THE FATHER," and not "the Son of the Holy Spirit."
I'll leave it at that. It would do you well to read all the material on our site and look up all the Scripture references before you make final judgment as to whether I teach the truth or not on these subjects you present.
God be with you,
Ray
lilitalienboi16:
Yes we must always becareful to consider the "SUM of thy word," knowing that "no verse is at all becoming its own interpretation."
As ray used to say, King David's last words were to kill his enemies and make it bloody. King David died an unrepentant murderer and murderers will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. He will have to be judged and judgement in the next age occurs in the lake of fire, which is Christ and the Elect. Our God is a consuming fire.
Just some added thoughts to this topic. If anyone want's to find where ray said this about king David, feel free to add it! I know he did! :)
God bless,
Alex
Gina:
Okay, so to sum up: those who died not having received the promise, will learn righteousness through judgment via the elect of God. I also understand that the first resurrection is for God's chosen elect who are perfected for the job to be judging [in righteousness] the world which comes up in the 2nd resurrection to judgment.
--- Quote ---What I have consistently failed to understand whenever the topic of the OT saints not being first comes up is: WHY IS THIS BAD NEWS?
--- End quote ---
Exactly. I don't think the OT saints are going to be objecting to receiving the promise of their faith: salvation and healing.
THE LAKE OF FIRE - Part XII
GOD JUDGES THE WORLD IN A POND
WHENCE THE WORD LAKE?
Interesting word, this word "lake." The word lake in Rev. 19, 20, & 21 is "limen, which comes from Strong’s "[#3040--limen] (through the idea of nearness of shore); a POND (large or small) -- lake."
And the word limen means "a harbor—haven, the fair havens" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary, p. 151).
A pond? God judges the world in a pond? Yes, God judges every unrepentant, unbelieving, wicked person that has ever lived (billions and billions and billions of people) -- The WHOLE WORLD OF HUMANITY (who are not in the first resurrection)… in a pond. A pond of divine, purifying SPIRIT.
This word limen has the word "fair" before it in Acts 27:8, in the King James Version—the "fair havens." Other translations render this verse as "safe harbor." (My father helped build Safe Harbor Dam in Pennsylvania).
Is not even the definition of this word and its root, comforting? And so even in this most solemn setting of God’s judgment there is a hint of safety and security.
Do any really believe that God wants to play just one more insane cruel joke on the majority of humanity which are supposedly destined to an eternity of torture in fire, by telling us that this insane pit of torture is going to take place in a SHELTERED PLACE OF SAFETY? Is God Almighty going to torture the majority of humanity in a place He jeeringly calls: a pond, a lake, a "SHELTERED PLACE OF SAFETY?"
It is true that, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God" (Heb. 10:31), but that does not negate the fact that there is also "safety, shelter, and covering" in God’s Divine Pond of Spiritual purifying FIRE.
http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html
(That is one of my favorite papers of Ray's!)
Ian 155:
King David's last words were to kill his enemies and make it bloody. King David died an unrepentant murderer and murderers will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
I was under the impression That spiritually,in this quote, David is "in the place of God" (The Father) and Solomon (in the place) of Jesus the Son,and David's instructions to Solomon are as the fathers to Jesus regarding his enemies " For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet".
Stupid me,
Dave in Tenn:
Whether or not David represented thre Father or Solomon the Son represented Christ (I and my Father are ONE) is not the issue with resurrection and judgement. David lived, David died, and David will be raised from the dead. THIS covenant is NOT IN ACCORD with the old. HIS ENEMIES were flesh and blood. OURS are not. His WEAPONS were carnal. Ours are not. One is the shadow--the other the fulfillment. THIS is a "better thing".
The others mentioned in Hebrews did NOT say or do the things David did, yet they all died and will be raised from the dead to have their works judged whether good or bad.
Jesus was first. He won't be the last. If He was not raised from the dead, neither will I be.
Thanks, Kat, for the leg-work.
Thanks, Gina. If I were a prophet of old having died without receiving the promise of what I had prophesied, I would be HAPPY (BLESSED) to see it fulfilled and to understand at last what I didn't. At what measure of the prophecy I HAD seen fulfilled in my life, I would be overwhelmed at the magnitude of what God will eventually do, and HOW He will do it.
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