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"of" or "in"?

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Dave in Tenn:
I have no definitive answer, but here's another passage to add to this.

Gal 2:20  I am crucified withG4957 Christ:G5547 neverthelessG1161 I live;G2198 yet notG3765 I,G1473 butG1161 ChristG5547 livethG2198 inG1722 me:G1698 andG1161 the life whichG3739 I nowG3568 liveG2198 inG1722 the fleshG4561 I liveG2198 byG1722 the faithG4102 of(G3588) theG3588 SonG5207 of God,G2316 who lovedG25 me,G3165 andG2532 gaveG3860 himselfG1438 forG5228 me.G1700


Strong's definition of G3588 may only help a grammarian. 

G3588
ὁ, ἡ, τό
ho  hē  to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.


The scriptures YOU posted, however, don't use the word (at least I didn't find one that did)...but as the definition said, sometimes it is left out in idiomatic translation.

Try this one, the Apostolic Polyglot--as close to a 'word-for'word' translation as I have.

Eph 3:12  inG1722 whomG3739 we haveG2192 G3588 an open mannerG3954 andG2532 G3588 accessG4318 inG1722 relianceG4006 throughG1223 theG3588 beliefG4102 of his.G1473

Rom 3:22  even righteousnessG1343 G1161 of GodG2316 throughG1223 beliefG4102 of JesusG* Christ,G5547 untoG1519 allG3956 andG2532 forG1909 allG3956 the onesG3588 trusting;G4100 [3notG3756 1forG1063 2there is]G1510.2.3 a difference;G1293
Rom 3:23  for allG3956 G1063 sinnedG264 andG2532 lackG5302 theG3588 gloryG1391 G3588 of God;G2316

Gal 2:16  and knowingG1492 G1161 thatG3754 [2is notG3756 3justifiedG1344 1man]G444 fromG1537 worksG2041 of law,G3551 butG1437 G3361 throughG1223 beliefG4102 of JesusG* Christ,G5547 andG2532 weG1473 [2inG1519 3ChristG5547 4JesusG* 1trusted],G4100 thatG2443 we should be justifiedG1344 ofG1537 beliefG4102 of Christ,G5547 andG2532 notG3756 byG1537 worksG2041 of law;G3551 forG1360 notG3756 shall [3be justifiedG1344 4byG1537 5worksG2041 6of lawG3551 1anyG3956 2flesh].G4561

Gal 3:22  ButG235 [3consignedG4788 1theG3588 2scripture]G1124 the wholeG3588 G3956 underG5259 sin,G266 thatG2443 theG3588 promiseG1860 ofG1537 beliefG4102 of JesusG* ChristG5547 should be givenG1325 to the onesG3588 trusting.G4100

And lastly, the one I put forward:

Gal 2:20  [2ChristG5547 1I have been crucified with],G4957 but I live,G2198 G1161 no longerG3765 I,G1473 [3livesG2198 1butG1161 4inG1722 5meG1473 2Christ];G5547 but that [2whichG3739 G1161 4nowG3568 3I 5liveG2198 6inG1722 1flesh],G4561 [2inG1722 3beliefG4102 1I live] --G2198 in the oneG3588 of theG3588 sonG5207 G3588 of God,G2316 of the oneG3588 lovingG25 me,G1473 andG2532 delivering himself upG3860 G1438 forG5228 me.G1473

Might help to put them in order too, at least within each epistle.

I know what I think (and have for quite a while) from all the above (and then some). 

You're right--it makes a difference in 'understanding'.  It is HIS FAITH that He gives to us.  I wasn't trained to think of Jesus as having 'faith'.  Wrong, paleface.   ;D

 

lurquer:
Dave, I love what you said.. And I remember hearing Ray explain that passage (or that rendering of it) in an audio a long while back, and how it was so profound to me. Yes, it was the faith OF Christ that is saving us!  (If it was really all OUR faith, then we did the work.. Our salvation was then OUR doing, not His).  At least that's how I saw it.

But like you (and probably everyone else here)--Before Ray--I wasn't taught that Jesus "had faith".  Wow.. Of COURSE He did!  Because He is indeed the "author and finisher of our faith"!  Deep stuff indeed.

But, I wonder...The negative of faith is doubt. Many times, for example, when I've heard the Stones' song, Sympathy for the Devil, and thought of that line, "I was around when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain"...Well, Did Jesus ever doubt?  Is doubt a necessary part of being human?  Is it always sin? If not, did He partake in that? Was his moment in the garden; His anguish, His drops of blood shed in agonizing prayer... was that doubt?

What do you all think?

Michael

Gina:
Hi, Michael

Apart from that line "had his moment of of doubt," I like that song. 

I've always wondered what is it about that scene in the garden when Christ "begins to be sorrowful and depressed" that the writer of that song interpreted as doubt.  For me, it is this:  The writer of that song is writing as if Satan is speaking.  And Satan is what?  A liar.  Satan would have some believe that Jesus doubted because it serves to cause doubt in the hearer.  If Satan can cause people to believe that Jesus actually had a doubt, well, that makes Jesus out to be a sinner who gave into temptation.  When Jesus was tempted, He never sinned.  Doubt means to hesitate to believe; a feeling of uncertainty about the truth.  Do you think that Jesus fell to the temptation to doubt the truth of Who He was?  Well, if He did then we have a sinner for a savior, and I don't think we want to go there. ;)

His Father made sure that He didn't give in to the temptation to doubt.

Gina:
p.s.  In case the writer of the song was referring to the time when Jesus quoted the Psalm:  "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?"  while on the cross, that was not a public display of doubt by Jesus.  There was a time when I thought that God actually did forsake Jesus, but I don't believe that anymore.  Jesus quoted a Psalm, for whatever reason, I don't know exactly why at this point in my walk but I'm confident it will make perfect sense one day.  And some have tried to explain those words away but not to my satisfaction because when they do, they unintentionally make Jesus out to be doubting -- which means he lacked belief.  So I don't pay any attention to their explanations.   And besides, right after He said, why have you forsaken me, He said, "Into thy hands I commit my spirit."  And that is proof that Jesus didn't give into the temptation to doubt.  It's really tempting to believe he had a moment of unbelief, I grant you that!  But I would caution you against that.  It serves no good purpose.  :)

jojoross:
Thanks everyone for your input. Seriously helps me tremendously (always does  ;)).

Ever since I came to the knowledge that God TRULY is the Potter and I am the clay about almost a year ago (yes I keep track of the time...God works with us in time right?  ;)) I have been in a real battle. I am still trying to put myself as the king sitting on the throne in God's temple and not Jesus. BUT at the same time the peace OF God is really recenating in me due to the fact that God is creatING me in His image! AND not just me But all mankind in this age or the next...I mean how amazing is that?

Its crazy how much I ponder on these marvelous truths God is opening my eyes to see. Its hard to not have people your closes with not see it. But God will have them see one day. Ahhh who can be His counselor?! Again thanks for your words everybody. It TRULY is a blessing to this wretched man  :)

Gods peace,
Jordan

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