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The Marriage Vow

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Kat:

--- Quote from: Neo on February 11, 2015, 07:12:46 PM ---If being "married", that is, the biblical definition of marriage, results solely from a ceremony, which is itself only the means for the stated end of "exchanging vows", taking an "oath", or speaking a "covenant or contract", then what is the vow?  What exactly is being "vowed"?  What does the contract need to say to be 'biblically legitimate'? In other words, if the true definition of marriage is a written or verbal formula--the magic words, if you will--shouldn't we know what they are?  Wouldn't that be all-important?  Because, that itself, according to Ray, "is what marriage is."   And IF a contract establishes a marriage, all contracts can be broken by one side not following through...What grounds then does the contract specify will void the contract? You see if the contract theory of marriage is true, these are utterly important matters.  (I am not being sarcastic or facetious).
--- End quote ---
Michael, well there is this Scripture.

Mal 2:13  And this second thing you do. You cover the LORD's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand.
v. 14  But you say, "Why does he not?" Because the LORD was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
v. 15  Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.

Of course God is serious about the wedding vows we say, this actually forms a spiritual covenants with Him. Legally the vows form a verbal contract that the couple are joined and share property and debt, and all responsibilities of the marriage. God says He witnesses these vows, they are made before Him and it unites the 2 to become 1. The vows form a legal commitment and then sexual intercourse 'consummates' the marriage. In most states a marriage that is not consummated with intercourse can be annulled, if that is desirable. Whereas divorce dissolves a marriage, getting an annulment voids the marriage completely, as if it never happened. Marriage being a signed legal contact, means a couple must go through the court system to divorce.

Jesus reinforces this scarceness of the marriage covenant when asked about divorce by the Pharisees.

Mat 19:4  He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
v. 5  and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?
v. 6  So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

When the couple exchanges wedding vows they are making a moral, legal and spiritual commitment to each other. It's a promise to be faithful, reassurance that they will stick it out no matter what, "for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health."

The marriage commitment is so important, that God instituted it at the very beginning with the first recorded history of mankind, Adam and Eve.

Gen 2:24  Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Hope this is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

lurquer:
Kat, I very much appreciate the time and thought you put into your posts.  I do read them carefully.  I somehow feel like many others here do not make the same effort...careful reading is important. 

You do understand what I am asking, I see.  You offered an interesting scripture in Malachi which mentions a "covenant".  But the problem is we do not know what the covenant is.  Let me just say this:  Some marriages begin by covenant indeed, this is what an "espousal" actually is...a "promise"...to be married.  When a man had espoused a woman to be his wife (or more likely covenanted with the father of the woman to take his daughter to wife) he was considered 'as good as married'. We see this played out in the story of Joseph and Mary--in that he is called "her husband" even though they had not yet 'had a ceremony' (or none is recorded), nor had they yet "consummated" the marriage.  BUT, he had a legal right (in Jewish law) to "put her away privately" when he found she was pregnant (it was obviously not his).

Let's stop just a second.. Let's even say they actually had a 'ceremony and the exchange of vows' prior to her becoming pregnant.  Whatever the case, at that point, the scriptures say he was "her husband" (Matt1:19) Ok?

Now, therefore the angel of the Lord had to personally tell Joseph what was going on and to "fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife..." (vs. 20).  She was not his wife yet.  He had not taken her to wife. But how can that be, if they'd already covenanted with each other??  Because the covenant is not the THING...It is the PROMISE of the thing. Once the thing occurs, the covenant is no longer necessary.  It has been fulfilled.  Surely we all understand this concept, as New Testament believers.

This is the covenant Malachi is speaking of.  We ourselves have been given the same covenant by Christ in that we are now espoused to Him.  We are not yet married, but we reckon ourselves as though we are (Paul speaks much on this as you know). The Marriage has not been consummated.

So again, there may be a vow, but we have just seen that the vow is not the thing.  This, I know, is contrary to what Ray said. He said 'it was the thing itself'.

But do all marriages begin with a vow? If a marriage is a "union between a man and a woman, wherein they become joined as one flesh" (you quote Genesis 2:24 to verify this) then those who have become one flesh are married.  Have I made a logic error here? I hope not.

Dave, I appreciate what you wrote, and your warning was helpful. You posted in part, this quote from 1Cor 6: 
"Know ye not, that your bodies are the members of the Messiah? Shall one take a member of the Messiah, and make it the member of a harlot? Far be it.  Or know ye not, that whoever joineth himself to a harlot, is one body [with her]? For it is said, They twain shall be one body."

This is very interesting.  We just defined marriage as a "union between a man and a woman, wherein they become joined as one flesh"  (we got this from Genesis).  Why was Paul warning those to flee from fornication? Because "the twain shall be one". You have married yourself to a harlot. Where is the vow in that marriage?  What oath was taken between the two?  I'd reckon none, except a promise to pay a certain sum. (Some harlots give it away for free though!).  And who were the witnesses to that transaction?  I'd venture none. Yet they became married, according to Paul.

Yet there was a Witness.  There is always a witness to every marriage, legitimate or not. The same Who witnessed the union of Adam and Eve.

None of that was to say which marriages are "legal" or not; I'm not speaking of that...the "vows and legal commitments" that you mentioned, Kat, are a state conception, and it is irrelevant to God.  That is why a "legal marriage" between two men is NOT a marriage to God.  Man's laws are irrelevant; God invented marriage and His definition will always trump man's.

Finally, you said,

"The vows form a legal commitment and it is sexual intercourse that 'consummates' the marriage. In most states a marriage that is not consummated with intercourse can be annulled. Whereas divorce dissolves a marriage, getting an annulment voids the marriage completely, as if it never happened."

Well, is that what Ray teaches?  Is not the vow, the legal commitment, the thing itself? But if it is, then how does a "legal annulment" for an "unconsummated marriage" undo the vow?  It can't; that's called 'having your cake and eating it too'.

Unless...the vow was to consummate the marriage.  Therefore, sex has everything to do with marriage.

I hope you can see how badly woven this whole yarn is that the CHURCH has foisted on us via the STATE.  Ray once said something along the lines of "the Church has gotten nothing right, not one thing..." Well they got this wrong too. But it seems somehow Ray got tangled up in it.

Hopefully we can get into Octoberose's excellent observations soon. Thanks for paying attention to all the words!


 

Kat:

--- Quote from: Ian 155 on February 12, 2015, 05:01:04 PM ---Eve speaks of one tree Singular....

Gen 2:17 Yet from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you are not to be eating from it, for in the day you eat from it, to die shall you be dying.

this is A tree but represents 2 things i believe carnal and spiritual the Lust,lust and the pride is carnal or interpreted by our senses the Good Is the interpretation by the spirit and so is the war today carnal vs spiritual (this is what I am seeing ) I may not be fully enlightened on this yet

The tree of life is representative of Christ I believe I was referring to the tree in the midst
--- End quote ---

Eve partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is a parable that represents this life, everybody that lives is given this spirit/breath of life, the "good and evil." That is just living this life, it's not all bad, there is some good, but there is always evil that comes with it.

There is no spiritual war/struggle going on with the vast majority of mankind right now. The Holy Spirit is only given to a very few that God has chosen and draws to Christ and only these few are struggling to die to self/carnality, putting on the new man.

John 6:44  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

All those Scripture that speaks of the "war of carnal vs spiritual" is speaking to believers that have been given of that Holy Spirit now. But that only began to be given at Pentecost after Jesus Christ was sacrificed and became the Redeemer.

John 7:37  On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
v. 38  Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"
v. 39  Now this He said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
John 16:13  However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Acts 1:8  But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

So as you can see the tree of the knowledge of good and evil does not give the Holy Spirit, that can only come from Christ Jesus, the Tree of life.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Dennis Vogel:
The "vow" is the oath, pledge, promise, bond, covenant, commitment, avowal, profession, affirmation, attestation, assurance, guarantee and your word to uphold the marriage contract. (Yes I looked these up).

You can be legally married and never have sex. Sex does not make a marriage legal. The vow to God makes it legal to have sex. It's a contract.

Some people cannot have sex for physical reasons but are legally married just the same.

So what you are saying is if there is never any sex the marriage is void and either person can walk out even after 20 years of living under a contract. No strings attached. No obligations. No nothing. Just leave and let the other person fend for themselves because there was never any sex.


--- Quote ---the vow was to consummate the marriage
--- End quote ---

Show me a verse that says this. Not conjecture, but a verse.

lilitalienboi16:
In case anyone is being confused by the idea that Ian put forth that there is only one tree in the garden, let me put an end to that confusion with this:

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Two tree's here. If that isn't enough. After Adam ate the apple

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

God decides to prevent them from ALSO eating from the tree of life:

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

So God banishes them from the garden.

Now listen, if these two tree's are the same tree then when adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he would have also eaten of the tree of life. Yet after he eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God can still prevent him from eating from the tree of life. That can only be possible if they are two different trees! Gen 3:22 doesn't read "Les now he put forth his hand and take also of the fruit of life." No, this wasn't one tree with two different fruits on it. Fruits of knowledge of good and evil and fruits of life, no. This is two different trees, each bearing fruit after their own kind.

The second point I will make to end this is that the tree of life gives Aionion life. It says it right there in Gen 3:22. Humanity does not possess Aionion life, that only comes through Christ. Only those that overcome are given Aionion life to reign with Christ. That is not ALL of humanity.

Joh_20:31 Yet these are written that you should be believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that, believing, you may have life eonian in His name

Rom_6:23 For the wages of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

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