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Author Topic: What you learned at bible  (Read 3238 times)

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Mike Gagne

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What you learned at bible
« on: February 13, 2015, 05:44:28 PM »

Pay attention to the words, LRay has said this many times in  his audio  teachings and in his writings. I  have noticed that some of us have not done this and I see it leads to trouble further down the thread. Example, one time I was Going at it with Kat and Alex and I was just reading and answering with out a whole lot of really paying attention to all the words, I got frustrated and I was getting angry. But for some reason ( and we know who is the cause of them reasons) I kept going back and rereading and after reading the posts  of Kat and Alex over and over again wham Oh God opened my eyes to the truth of  what they were saying! Wow if I would have done that ( pay attention to all the words ) I would have saved a lot of time, typing and frustrating of others. Neo mentioned it in another thread.  I learned that I must pay attention to all the words and It is a great benefit to me!

Dave in Tenn

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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2015, 07:01:54 PM »

I won't dispute that you've made a good observation.  I can only add that 'sometimes' the words we use (and absolutely most especially when discussing biblical topics) have to be clear, and (for real communication to take place) understood and defined by both (all) parties in much the same way.  This isn't a matter of some writing well, and others not-so-well.  It's a matter of a shared understanding of the meanings of those pesky "bible-words".  Get the definition, and you may well can understand the message.  Don't get the definition, and you well may not be able to. 

One thing I've learned from Ray's writing is that he goes to great lengths to accurately define the words of Scripture.  Paul exhorted to use 'sound language'.  Surely the writers of Scripture did.  Surely the major theologians of the world do not.  That's been the major focus of my own study for these past years.  What does scripture actually SAY...not what spin can I put on this?

Anyway--just venting a bit.  Maybe I missed your point again.   ;)

Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Mike Gagne

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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2015, 07:09:10 PM »

I agree Dave! 😀

Dennis Vogel

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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2015, 09:18:20 PM »

And sometimes:

Joh 12:40  He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Mike Gagne

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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2015, 10:56:44 PM »

Yes Dennis! Only God can open my eyes...Isaiah 22:22 (KJV)
[22] And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. And...Revelation 3:7 (KJV)
[7] And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;  Only God can reveal these truths to me that I have learned from both bible truths .com and exposing those who contradict web sites. When Jesus called me out of the church within a month He opened  the doors to me and lead me straight to these sites! On the way I heard of others and even looked into them and my spirit never agreed with them! I trust Jesus lead me here to teach me His truths and my spirit is in agreement with Lrays teachings!! My spirit never said wow like it has on other sites! No one can take from me what Jesus has taught me here, no one can close that door!!


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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2015, 11:51:18 PM »

I learned that:

I'm powerless to make myself stop sinning.
I can't please everybody all the time.
A person convinced against their will, is of the same opinion still.
And last but not least, God is very, very wise and very, very patient.


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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 03:06:18 PM »

Pay attention to the words, LRay has said this many times in  his audio  teachings and in his writings.

You hit on a good one Mike.  It's a real miracle that we can understand anything spiritual at all considering that most of the scriptures were written in Hebrew and Greek.  And then translated into Latin and from Latin to Old English and then to contemporary English not to mention the other languages.  [Also of course the scriptures were later translated directly from Hebrew and Greek to English thereby bypassing the Latin] 

When I consider the word 'hell' which everyone today think they know what it means because of the teachings of the church but yet as Ray taught that the root of that word had an entirely different meaning in 1611 than is currently understood to mean today.  And of course the contemporary church will fight tooth and nail over the meaning of that word today and don't want to hear that it doesn't mean what they are all sure that it means.  LOL

Today we have access to our tablets and notebooks that have E-Sword and other study aids that would of required a whole library of books in the past.  And we can look up things today in seconds that would of taken our Grandfathers and Grandmothers hours to look up not all that many years ago.  To be able to look up how verses are rendered in various bibles almost immediately and then be able to click on a particular word and see how that word is used in Greek and Hebrew gives us tools that we are blessed to have at our finger tips.  So it's a great reminder to pay attention to all the words as just a word to two can drastically change what a verse might say with only a casual perusal. 


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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 01:09:51 PM »

WELL... one of the first things I learned was that the Christian church was Mystery Babylon the Great Mother of Harlots. This was pretty big for me, because I was still there!! This knowledge released me from that prison, "come out of her My people," I could not run away fast enough! The veil was removed and I could see it for what it really was... with of course Ray's elaboration on all that.

The most exciting thing I learned was the salvation of the whole human race (and the spirit realm as well)... the big difference and critical to understand from what the church had taught is that for the great majority of people that does not happen in this lifetime. Ray really pressed home the knowledge that salvation only comes to the few now, in this lifetime, for the many it's in the next age.

The most surprising, yet for me easy to catch on to, was that we have no free will. That had never even crossed my mind before Ray taught about "The Myth of Free Will Expose."

And then there was the numerous profound truths learned almost daily from the continued study at BT.

Christ Jesus is the same God that was in the OT and is not one part of a Trinity.

Satan actually has his throne in the Christian church.

Hell is a complete hoax, so is heaven.

The Scripture does not speak in terms of eternal, for ever and ever, and everlasting, but to the age.

The "days" of creation are not literal 24 hour days, but "yoms," very long periods of time.

The soul is produced/created when the spirit/breath of life enters into a newborn baby... then it vanishes away when the spirit return to God at death of the body.

All the dead in the grave are in a state of unconsciousness, the unseen or imperceptible. Their only hope to live again is in resurrection.

The beast is the carnality in US.

We are all in darkness unless the 'Light' of the Holy Spirit becomes indwelling, God's free gift of salvation for a very few now, by God's grace - Divine Influence on the heart.

The few are only 'begotten' in this life, and will be 'born' into the kingdom at Christ's literal return, to become glorified spirit beings.

The human race will be resurrected to physically live on earth and be judged in the great white throne judgment - the lake of fire, which is the next age.

We cannot earn or in any way qualify for salvation, we cannot even choose to come to/know God, every good thing we receive is a 'gift' from God.

Oh goodness I guess I could go on and on, I'll stop there though.

mercy, peace and love

« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 12:13:25 AM by Kat »


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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 09:04:19 PM »

Well said Kat. I would echo those as well for me.

One of the big ones for me was to see that death is not such bad news after all as that will be defeated too and the good news is salvation is indeed for all whatever people believe at the moment.

The lets get as many people saved as we can has been replaced with a more genuine love of those around me.

For me a lot of the confusion has gone as what the church was saying and what the word was saying were not in agreement.

True freedom is now what I feel.

I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.


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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 12:46:40 AM »

Hello Mike,

What I have learned here at B.T is the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God and I do need God’s help all day every day.  :)
To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.


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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 01:42:22 AM »

I learned how study the scriptures more correctly. Also how to be able to think and meditate "spiritual subjects" and other

subjects to my self.

Since then life has taken me on a roller coaster that seems to me that I will not be able to get out, until I am done...

So far, my conscience still clean until now and I thanks God for my faith and my friends, specially the ones with whom I am able to share precious absolute truths.   



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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2015, 12:58:35 PM »

LEARN-“ING” through Bible Truths.

‘All’:  significant and rarely understood in its full meaning.  Once recognized, un-ravels and eventually dispels every deeply believed and indoctrinated church sacrament.  No single action, it is a process that is long, varied and painful.

“free-will”, a deadly deceptive spiritual maze filled with smoke and mirrors which prides itself on many deaths.  So few are given the power to ‘see’ the way out, much less given the power to step their way out.

A mustard seed size of faith IS a “mountain”

A spiritual prison is dark, lonely, and has more than ample time and room for reflection.  There is only one key.  No one, save one, has ever had the key in their possession.

Not just another story:  “He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating”……. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him.”

Everything really is meaningless.

Humble is a treasure.  So few recognize it, so few want it, no one has found it, save one.

‘O death, where is your victory, where is your sting?’ is as much spiritual as it is physical.

“so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue” is only, truly, understood and believed when you’re the one with the burning tongue.


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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 01:01:26 PM »

Hell is a complete hoax, so is heaven.

mercy, peace and love

Hi Kat,

Would you expand on heaven hoax or point me to where Ray provided study?




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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 02:52:42 PM »

Hi gk,
Here are a few emails from Ray about heaven.,2295.0.html ----------------

The heaven spoken of in Rev. 12:9 is not a planet or rock way up in the sky in outer space. If it were, we would NEVER have to worry about Satan or his messengers and ministers.  How would Satan devour people from outer space.  How would we wrestle against wicked spirits in OUTER SPACE (Eph. 6:12)?  God does not reside WITH Satan. What fellowship, communion, has light with darkness? (II Cor. 6:14-15).  God and Satan do not live together on a planet called heaven in a galaxy far far away.,2110.0.html ------------------

"Heaven" has several meanings, as well as the fact that there are multiple "heavens."  "In the beginning God created the HEAVENS and the earth" according to the Hebrew.
When God refers to Babylon or Capernaum as being lifted up to "heaven," it is not referring to God's throne, but merely as being "high," "lofty," "exalted," etc.  Jesus, however, came out of the "heaven" of His Father's realm, not high up in the sky or from outer space.,2718.0.html ------------------

Your question "Will we miss our unsaved family and friend who are not in heaven," has three false teachings in it. NO ONE is in heaven, if you mean a geographical location way up in the sky or outer space somewhere. That is all fantasy. The Bible knows nothing of "GOING to heaven" or "GOING to hell." All of your "unsaved family and friends" WILL be saved, so there is no need to worry about them.  Contrary to the damnable doctory of a Christian hell, God will save ALL HUMANITY. You really need to read the material on our site. You cannot even ask a question with a christian doctrinal mindset, as there are just too many words, phrases, ideas, doctrine, teachings, books, etc., by Christian preachers and theologians that have not one ounce of agreement with the Scriptures. Hope you understand.  God Almighty, the most Loving Father in the Universe did not create millions of families so that He could separate them and make both sides totally miserable for all eternity.  Open your Bible and smell the Roses! You obviously have never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ. --------------------------------------------

The purpose for the Tower of Babel was the same as it was for all tower-building down through history. A huge tower is a sign and symbol of power and unity. Nimrod built it as a rallying point for the people.

All great empires have built huge towers, cathedrals, buildings, pyramids, etc. Same reason.

Nimrod did not think that he could really build a tower that would go to heaven, but rather to reach into the heavens as a tall tree or mountain.

Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN, ought to dispel and fanciful idea that the Heaven of God's Throne is in outer space on some huge galactic rock.

God's heaven is a higher spiritual realm of life and existence, not a geographical location in outer space.,4240.0.html --------------------------

You and the whole world of Christendom "ASSUME" certain things by certain verses of Scripture.  You are "assuming" that if one does not have his name written in the Life of the Lamb's book of life, that that person will then be lost for all eternity. Or that if one is thrown into "the lake of fire," he is unsaved for ever. These are all false assumptions. Death is not the final destiny of anyone. The lake of fire is not the final destiny of anyone. These are also false, unscriptural assumptions.

        Look at the "destiny" of the Patriots and Fathers of the Old Testament. Did they "die and go to heaven," as it so foolishly taught by Christendom?  NO. Not even Enoch and Elijah. They ALL DIED, and not one of them "received a promise that was given them by God."  Let's read it:

        "These [those mentioned above: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah--and those that follow later in this chapter]...These ALL DIED in faith, NOT having received the promises...." (Heb. 11:13).  Hebrews was written many many centuries AFTER all of these godly men died, and according to the author of Hebrews, they did not and had not YET received the promises.  Imagine that:  Dead for centuries and have NOT received their promises.  But, they will, in the yet future, after the resurrection of the dead to judgment (Verses 39-40).  The lake of fire is judgment; it is not ETERNAL TORTURE. And the Judgments of God bring godly righteousness: "When THY JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9).  What good is it if we do not believe ALL the Scriptures.,8026.0.html -------------------------

There are neither children NOR adults in heaven. There is no Scripture that
tells us that there are humans in heaven, or that anyone will ever "go to heaven."  Heaven
is not a geographical location where we can travel to.  Heaven is a realm--a much higher
realm than humanity in their carnal, earthly state.  Salvation has to do with becoming
like Jesus Christ, not traveling to some different location in the universe.,2886.0.html -------------------

We need to READ all words in
a Scripture, not just gloss over it and think we know what it means.
Matt. 22:23--"...there is NO RESURRECTION...."  [The Saducees didn't believe in resurrection].
          22:28--"...therefore in THE RESURRECTION...."
          22:30--"...For in THE RESURRECTION...."
          22l32--"...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, God is the God of the living.  He is not the God of dead people.
God is the God of LIVING PEOPLE. When? IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD.  "Concerning
THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, [that's how] God is the God of the living.,,4132.0.html ---------------------------

Ray's comments in red, emailer questions in black--
   Your question shows that you are at least thinking a little deeper than the average Christian. If one tries to fit the doctrines of Christendom into the teachings of the Scriptures, he will go spiritually insane. It cannot be done. Christian dogma is a theology of contradictions upon contradictions.

    Example: When a follower of Jesus dies, he immediately goes to heaven AS A HUMAN BEING. Problem: what then do we do with the all-important doctrine of "the resurrection of the DEAD?"
    It becomes less than useless, totally unnecessary, completely contradictory, and blasphemes the Word of God and "ONLY hope" that a believer has for a future life. Pretty important, HUH?

    If you had attended our Fall Bible Conference in Mobile you would have learned that no one is literally "born again," in this lifetime. While it is true that we will be "born" of God in the Resurrection (which doctrine is completely useless and unnecessary if Christians go to heaven at death), however while still in the flesh, we are "begotten" of God through His Holy Spirit. The problem of understanding this arises partly because theologians do not explain to their followers that the words "begotten" and "born" have but ONE Greek word to represent both. When we are truly "born" of God, Jesus said that we will be POWERFUL AND INVISIBLE "like the wind."

    Back to your question:  I have stated for some years now, over and over, that we must pay closer attention to ALL THE WORDS of a Scripture. Notice how you statements change when we actually follow all the words of these Scriptures.

    You state:  "Jesus died and we died, he resurrects and so we do, so we are not under the LAW, so does it mean if i am saved and reborn, I can no longer  sin, and if i do, do I have to repent again?? and can I sin again if I have been reborn?"

    Now let me comment:

    "Jesus died...."

    COMMENT:  True. He was physically dead without consciousness or life of any kind.

    "...and we died.."

    COMMENT:  Yes, but we did NOT physically die without consciousness or life of any kind. We symbolically died with Jesus in baptism.   

    "...He resurrects and so we do..."

    COMMENT:  Yes, Jesus was resurrected, we are NOT resurrected from being literally, physically dead, neither do we as yet have a "spiritual body"--I Cor. 15:44-50.  We symbolically and spiritually died to the "old man of sin."  And next notice HOW we are resurrected: "AS Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also [also....WHAT?] should walk in NEWNESS OF LIFE"  (Rom. 6:4). Not in NEWNESS OF A NEW SPIRITUAL BODY.  Continuing: "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death [pictured by baptism], we SHALL [that's future tense, not past tense] BE also in the likeness of His resurrection"  (Verse 5).  And when will that be?  When WE are resurrected FROM THE DEATH with a new SPIRITUAL BODY.

    " we are not under the LAW.."

    COMMENT:  True, but hardly anyone understands what that means, and I cannot take the time to explain that whole doctrine in a short email.

    " does it mean I am saved and reborn....?"

    COMMENT;  NO, neither. We are "begotten anew from above," but we are not literally born again, as we are not yet powerful and invisible like "the WIND."  Neither are you "saved" in the past tense. See my paper "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" where I discuss the "sinner's prayer" near the end and how that no Scriptures says that we are "saved" already in the past tense. This also happens when we are given a new spiritual body in our resurrection from the dead.

    Here is the key word to all of these misunderstandings you are having. You are talking the words of Rom. 6 literally, whereas we know that they were inspired of Christ's Holy Spirit, and these words are "spirit" (John 6:63).  Notice verse 11, after Paul explains all that happens when we are spiritually baptized with Jesus, He then shows how these things apply to us:  "Likewise [in like manner as Paul just explained the meaning of all these things in the previous verses]...LIKEWISE

    R-E-C-K-O-N  you also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED TO SIN, but ALIVE unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord"  (Rom. 6:11). "Reckon" means to estimate, suppose, count" etc. something to BE what it is not YET fully comprehended or fully come to pass.

    "...I can no longer I have to repent.........can I sin after being reborn?"

    COMMENT:  We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies. Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12).  We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you"  (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US"  (I John 1:8-10).,1675.0.html ---------------------

Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46;  I Cor. 2:11; etc.).  There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits.",5112.msg40285.html#msg40285 ------

There is nothing about the Truth or God's Word that should make us sad. When people die, they are dead.  This is not a terrible thing. God likens death to sleep in many many Scriptures. The only hope of the dead is a resurrection from the dead (a doctrine that has no value or importance in the Church any longer).  Read my short paper: "An Encouraging Word About Death" on my home page.
There is no consciousness in death, hence no one will ever experience being dead. Many will experience the act of dying (unless one is killed instantly or dies in one's sleep), but once we are dead we experience and know nothing (Ecc. 9:5). In resurrection, God in effect, awakens us out of our sleep of death (Psalm 13:3). Our hope is not in heaven, but in resurrection (I Cor. 15 whole chapter).
Now John 14:2--"In my Father's house are many mansions [Greek, abodes--same word translated abode in verse 23] : if it were not so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME AGAIN, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am [ON THIS EARTH, not heaven], THERE ye may be also...Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and COME AGAIN UNTO YOU..." (Also verse 28). What will happen to all the Believing Saints who have died over the centuries?  When and where will they receive the "abodes in the Father's House?"  They will live and reign as kings and priests with Jesus at resurrection (Rev. 20:4).  "And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH"  (Rev. 5:10).  Our reward, our special office or abode in God's Kingdom is to SAVE THE REST OF HUMANITY.

God be with you,
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 02:56:15 PM by Kat »

Mike Gagne

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Re: What you learned at bible
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 04:05:12 PM »

 Looking back!!!  And I turned and saw.... Wow when LRay taught that this is how we see things done in the spirit it really opened my eyes and I could see a lot of what he had taught in his Lake of Fires series behind me when I turned and saw!!   
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