Hi gk,
Here are a few emails from Ray about heaven.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2295.0.html ----------------
The heaven spoken of in Rev. 12:9 is not a planet or rock way up in the sky in outer space. If it were, we would NEVER have to worry about Satan or his messengers and ministers. How would Satan devour people from outer space. How would we wrestle against wicked spirits in OUTER SPACE (Eph. 6:12)? God does not reside WITH Satan. What fellowship, communion, has light with darkness? (II Cor. 6:14-15). God and Satan do not live together on a planet called heaven in a galaxy far far away.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2110.0.html ------------------
"Heaven" has several meanings, as well as the fact that there are multiple "heavens." "In the beginning God created the HEAVENS and the earth" according to the Hebrew.
When God refers to Babylon or Capernaum as being lifted up to "heaven," it is not referring to God's throne, but merely as being "high," "lofty," "exalted," etc. Jesus, however, came out of the "heaven" of His Father's realm, not high up in the sky or from outer space.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2718.0.html ------------------
Your question "Will we miss our unsaved family and friend who are not in heaven," has three false teachings in it. NO ONE is in heaven, if you mean a geographical location way up in the sky or outer space somewhere. That is all fantasy. The Bible knows nothing of "GOING to heaven" or "GOING to hell." All of your "unsaved family and friends" WILL be saved, so there is no need to worry about them. Contrary to the damnable doctory of a Christian hell, God will save ALL HUMANITY. You really need to read the material on our site. You cannot even ask a question with a christian doctrinal mindset, as there are just too many words, phrases, ideas, doctrine, teachings, books, etc., by Christian preachers and theologians that have not one ounce of agreement with the Scriptures. Hope you understand. God Almighty, the most Loving Father in the Universe did not create millions of families so that He could separate them and make both sides totally miserable for all eternity. Open your Bible and smell the Roses! You obviously have never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm#babel --------------------------------------------
The purpose for the Tower of Babel was the same as it was for all tower-building down through history. A huge tower is a sign and symbol of power and unity. Nimrod built it as a rallying point for the people.
All great empires have built huge towers, cathedrals, buildings, pyramids, etc. Same reason.
Nimrod did not think that he could really build a tower that would go to heaven, but rather to reach into the heavens as a tall tree or mountain.
Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN, ought to dispel and fanciful idea that the Heaven of God's Throne is in outer space on some huge galactic rock.
God's heaven is a higher spiritual realm of life and existence, not a geographical location in outer space.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4240.0.html --------------------------
You and the whole world of Christendom "ASSUME" certain things by certain verses of Scripture. You are "assuming" that if one does not have his name written in the Life of the Lamb's book of life, that that person will then be lost for all eternity. Or that if one is thrown into "the lake of fire," he is unsaved for ever. These are all false assumptions. Death is not the final destiny of anyone. The lake of fire is not the final destiny of anyone. These are also false, unscriptural assumptions.
Look at the "destiny" of the Patriots and Fathers of the Old Testament. Did they "die and go to heaven," as it so foolishly taught by Christendom? NO. Not even Enoch and Elijah. They ALL DIED, and not one of them "received a promise that was given them by God." Let's read it:
"These [those mentioned above: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah--and those that follow later in this chapter]...These ALL DIED in faith, NOT having received the promises...." (Heb. 11:13). Hebrews was written many many centuries AFTER all of these godly men died, and according to the author of Hebrews, they did not and had not YET received the promises. Imagine that: Dead for centuries and have NOT received their promises. But, they will, in the yet future, after the resurrection of the dead to judgment (Verses 39-40). The lake of fire is judgment; it is not ETERNAL TORTURE. And the Judgments of God bring godly righteousness: "When THY JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isaiah 26:9). What good is it if we do not believe ALL the Scriptures.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8026.0.html -------------------------
There are neither children NOR adults in heaven. There is no Scripture that
tells us that there are humans in heaven, or that anyone will ever "go to heaven." Heaven
is not a geographical location where we can travel to. Heaven is a realm--a much higher
realm than humanity in their carnal, earthly state. Salvation has to do with becoming
like Jesus Christ, not traveling to some different location in the universe.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2886.0.html -------------------
We need to READ all words in
a Scripture, not just gloss over it and think we know what it means.
Matt. 22:23--"...there is NO RESURRECTION...." [The Saducees didn't believe in resurrection].
22:28--"...therefore in THE RESURRECTION...."
22:30--"...For in THE RESURRECTION...."
22:31--"...BUT AS TOUCHING THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD...."
22l32--"...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
These verses are ALL ABOUT THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD. Concerning "THE
RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, God is the God of the living. He is not the God of dead people.
God is the God of LIVING PEOPLE. When? IN THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. "Concerning
THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, [that's how] God is the God of the living.,
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4132.0.html ---------------------------
Ray's comments in red, emailer questions in black--
Your question shows that you are at least thinking a little deeper than the average Christian. If one tries to fit the doctrines of Christendom into the teachings of the Scriptures, he will go spiritually insane. It cannot be done. Christian dogma is a theology of contradictions upon contradictions.
Example: When a follower of Jesus dies, he immediately goes to heaven AS A HUMAN BEING. Problem: what then do we do with the all-important doctrine of "the resurrection of the DEAD?"
It becomes less than useless, totally unnecessary, completely contradictory, and blasphemes the Word of God and "ONLY hope" that a believer has for a future life. Pretty important, HUH?
If you had attended our Fall Bible Conference in Mobile you would have learned that no one is literally "born again," in this lifetime. While it is true that we will be "born" of God in the Resurrection (which doctrine is completely useless and unnecessary if Christians go to heaven at death), however while still in the flesh, we are "begotten" of God through His Holy Spirit. The problem of understanding this arises partly because theologians do not explain to their followers that the words "begotten" and "born" have but ONE Greek word to represent both. When we are truly "born" of God, Jesus said that we will be POWERFUL AND INVISIBLE "like the wind."
Back to your question: I have stated for some years now, over and over, that we must pay closer attention to ALL THE WORDS of a Scripture. Notice how you statements change when we actually follow all the words of these Scriptures.
You state: "Jesus died and we died, he resurrects and so we do, so we are not under the LAW, so does it mean if i am saved and reborn, I can no longer sin, and if i do, do I have to repent again?? and can I sin again if I have been reborn?"
Now let me comment:
"Jesus died...."
COMMENT: True. He was physically dead without consciousness or life of any kind.
"...and we died.."
COMMENT: Yes, but we did NOT physically die without consciousness or life of any kind. We symbolically died with Jesus in baptism.
"...He resurrects and so we do..."
COMMENT: Yes, Jesus was resurrected, we are NOT resurrected from being literally, physically dead, neither do we as yet have a "spiritual body"--I Cor. 15:44-50. We symbolically and spiritually died to the "old man of sin." And next notice HOW we are resurrected: "AS Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also [also....WHAT?] should walk in NEWNESS OF LIFE" (Rom. 6:4). Not in NEWNESS OF A NEW SPIRITUAL BODY. Continuing: "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death [pictured by baptism], we SHALL [that's future tense, not past tense] BE also in the likeness of His resurrection" (Verse 5). And when will that be? When WE are resurrected FROM THE DEATH with a new SPIRITUAL BODY. "...so we are not under the LAW.."
COMMENT: True, but hardly anyone understands what that means, and I cannot take the time to explain that whole doctrine in a short email. "...so does it mean I am saved and reborn....?"
COMMENT; NO, neither. We are "begotten anew from above," but we are not literally born again, as we are not yet powerful and invisible like "the WIND." Neither are you "saved" in the past tense. See my paper "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" where I discuss the "sinner's prayer" near the end and how that no Scriptures says that we are "saved" already in the past tense. This also happens when we are given a new spiritual body in our resurrection from the dead. Here is the key word to all of these misunderstandings you are having. You are talking the words of Rom. 6 literally, whereas we know that they were inspired of Christ's Holy Spirit, and these words are "spirit" (John 6:63). Notice verse 11, after Paul explains all that happens when we are spiritually baptized with Jesus, He then shows how these things apply to us: "Likewise [in like manner as Paul just explained the meaning of all these things in the previous verses]...LIKEWISE
R-E-C-K-O-N you also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED TO SIN, but ALIVE unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11). "Reckon" means to estimate, suppose, count" etc. something to BE what it is not YET fully comprehended or fully come to pass. "...I can no longer sin........do I have to repent.........can I sin after being reborn?"
COMMENT: We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies. Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12). We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you" (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US" (I John 1:8-10). http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1675.0.html ---------------------
Yes, there is a spirit in man (AND ALL ANIMALS). Nothing can live without "spirit." Spirit IS life (Ecc. 8:8; Ecc. 12:7; Luke 23:46; I Cor. 2:11; etc.). There is no consciousness in our spirit alone. There is only consciousness (soul) when man's spirit is combined with a body. God retains our spirit until resurrection when He puts our spirit into a new body and we once again become conscious or receive back the quality of "soul." We are said to have new "spiritual" bodies, not that we are made "spirits."
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5112.msg40285.html#msg40285 ------
There is nothing about the Truth or God's Word that should make us sad. When people die, they are dead. This is not a terrible thing. God likens death to sleep in many many Scriptures. The only hope of the dead is a resurrection from the dead (a doctrine that has no value or importance in the Church any longer). Read my short paper: "An Encouraging Word About Death" on my home page.
There is no consciousness in death, hence no one will ever experience being dead. Many will experience the act of dying (unless one is killed instantly or dies in one's sleep), but once we are dead we experience and know nothing (Ecc. 9:5). In resurrection, God in effect, awakens us out of our sleep of death (Psalm 13:3). Our hope is not in heaven, but in resurrection (I Cor. 15 whole chapter).
Now John 14:2--"In my Father's house are many mansions [Greek, abodes--same word translated abode in verse 23] : if it were not so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME AGAIN, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am [ON THIS EARTH, not heaven], THERE ye may be also...Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and COME AGAIN UNTO YOU..." (Also verse 28). What will happen to all the Believing Saints who have died over the centuries? When and where will they receive the "abodes in the Father's House?" They will live and reign as kings and priests with Jesus at resurrection (Rev. 20:4). "And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH" (Rev. 5:10). Our reward, our special office or abode in God's Kingdom is to SAVE THE REST OF HUMANITY.
God be with you,
Ray