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Dave in Tenn:
Moises, To add to what Bob said, there are 'provisions' in law (at least where I live) for what is called 'common-law' marriage that recognize it after a certain period of 'living together' has occurred.  The time required may vary, but I think they are all designed to recognize the 'commitment'. 

I'm making no comment about these arrangements, just saying that they exist and are 'formally' and legally recognized, and have been for a long time.

lauriellen:
Thank you Dave and Indianabob,
I appreciate your comments. Above all, I think God is loving, merciful and full of compassion. This is the God that Jesus revealed.  If He doesn't hold our sins against us, then why do we think that sinners will be punished for them? Wouldn't it be more of a correction (learning righteousness) than a payment (punishment) for a sin that God says He doesn't hold against us?  I think often about the fact that I am no more deserving of the gift of faith than the next person. It is ALL God's work. He hardens who He will, He has mercy on who He will. The race is NOT to the swift, but it's all up to God. If that doesn't serve to keep us humble, I don't know what would.

Kat:

--- Quote from: Moises G. on April 06, 2015, 08:08:17 AM ---Here is a question that might has to do with the main intention of this thread.

If I could only marriage legally in Gods eyes through the government paper...

Why does my spiritual well being and integrity has to depend on my availability for the carnal government and their papers?

I agree that A ceremony and vow between one man and one woman makes a marriage (Gen 5:2, Matthew 9:4)
Paul says, Let your Yes be Yes and Your No be No.    (Yes, I have read Rays paper on marriage)

We ought to obey God before man.

I am okay with following all rational and respectful laws that governments make (traffic laws, respecting the things of others and things like that). I am just very suspicious about how this signing of random "official" papers can be able to mess up with my spiritual life. I don't want to be a fornicator.

You know, the easiest thing to do is to stop thinking about it, pay 35 dollars and sign the "official" paper, and I would also save my self all this time of posting and defending my point.

But sometimes looking for the truth becomes not the 'easiest way to go'. And I could make a big list of hypothetical situations where the signing of this "official" paper would be impossible to sign, inconvenient to sign, suspicious to sign, and meaningless to sign.

I somewhat understand how societies work and how civilizations need this kind of organization, etc, etc. I am not trying to change the worlds rules, I am just concerned about my own personal way to deal with this matters as a truth seeker.

sincerely
Moises

ps. I am open for rational discussion and reconsider my personal suspicious on the matter.
If you don't agree with me,
please be nice.
--- End quote ---

Hi Moises,

Our human reasoning on this matter is not what counts, we need to try to go by what is God's will and Scriptural. We know that marriage is spoken of many times and Paul says "it is better to marry than to burn with passion." Do we really think Paul is saying that to "marry" only needs to be some kind of 'private' commitment, no matter how sincere? The marriage ceremony is about the PUBLIC commitment before witnesses, family and friends, that creates a binding contact/covenant of a marriage. Those who attend bare witness to the couples words/vow of commitment, the 'witnesses' are always required for it to be legal. This creates the contract/covenant and God recognizes that.

Mal 2:14  Yet you say, "For what reason?" Because the LORD has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant.

The 'piece of paper' is only to establish a legal record of the marriage commitment/contract, so the couple can then partake of the benefits; tax benefits, med. insurance benefits through a spouse's employment, receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses. Actually the church used to keep many public records of marriage, births, death dates, and is considered an official record, that's why Christians used it and in past centuries, so there would be a record. But you don't have to involve church or minister at all, there are many officials that can legally marry a couple.  Maybe in the near future you won't even need a piece of paper, maybe it will all be done through computer programs or fingerprints or something.

Also this earthly marriage is a shadow of the spiritual marriage of Christ to His bride/church. It symbolizes that perfect union when Christ becomes one with His bride and that will have many witnesses as well.

Rev 3:5  He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Think about how the marriage of the elect to Christ at resurrection will actually produce many offspring, the elect will be "saviors" "priests" and Christ, through the elect will bring salvation to the world. Eventually the rest of mankind will be born into the kingdom too.

Oba 1:21  Then saviors shall come to Mount Zion To judge the mountains of Esau, And the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them...

That's what makes the same gender/sex marriage a farce, IMO... marriage symbolizes Christ and the elect united to produce children, salvation of the rest of humanity, that is impossible for a marriage of the same gender. We have to stop trying to understand things through worldly eyes, there is no truth there.

1Peter 2:9  But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people to be His very own and to proclaim the wonderful deeds of the One who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
v. 10  Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God. Once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
v. 11  Dear friends, I urge you as aliens and exiles to keep on abstaining from the desires of the flesh that wage war against the soul.
v. 12  Continue to live such upright lives among the gentiles that, when they slander you as practicers of evil, they may see your good actions and glorify God when He visits them.
v. 13  For the Lord's sake submit yourselves to every human authority: whether to the king as supreme,
v. 14  or to governors who are sent by Him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right.
v. 15  For it is God's will that by doing right you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

indianabob:
Hi Kat,
Thanks for expounding the deeper truths about the purpose of marriage.
Much appreciated. Indiana bob

lilitalienboi16:
I would also add to this that if the state requires you to have a piece of paper to recognize your marriage before man and subsequently before God then do it. There is no power than that of God.

Romans 13

1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

1 Peter 2
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

Of course though, do not obey those who would provoke you to do things which you know to be wrong in the eye's of God even if they are those in power for God is the one we answer to.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Lastly, we know how important witnesses are , after all, we cannot establish doctrine without at least two witnesses and the more the better! So then there need be witnesses too for marriage!

God bless,
Alex

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