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Fined over 100k for not baking a wedding cake!
lareli:
I wasn't familiar with what you meant by 'handwriting ordinances' so I did a quick search and found the following...
Links are not allowed if a site or article brings its own teaching or preaching. Links are allowed if a site it just for fun or informational, ie, you tube, google translator, Esword, etc.
A common mistake made by homosexual proponents when discussing the Old Testament, in particular Leviticus, is the failure to understand the three main divisions of the Law: civil, ceremonial, and moral. This is important because the civil and ceremonial law are not in effect now, but the moral law is. Let's take a look at these divisions within the book of Leviticus since it is the book under examination.
Civil - Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
Law of property redemption (Lev. 25)
Be just with the poor, (Lev. 19:15)
Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)
Ceremonial - Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1,2,3,4,5,6)
Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57)
Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25)
Moral - No Expiration because it is based on God's character. "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," (Lev. 19:2)
Do not steal or lie (Lev. 19:11)
Do not oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
Don't sacrifice children to Molech (Lev. 20:1-5)
Don't commit adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 20:9-21)
You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
Homosexuality is under the moral law category. In addition, as stated earlier, it is an abomination practiced by all people (Egypt and Canaan), not just the Israelites. Therefore, we see that the moral aspects of the Law are still in effect, but not the civil or ceremonial. Again, there were things addressed to Israel only where God said "speak to the sons of Israel saying..." These things included atonement for unintentional sins, eating habits, uncleanness, feast days, rest days, etc., which do not apply for us today.
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Is this what you were talking about?
lilitalienboi16:
Hi Largely,
I havn't looked at carm.org and I know they teach many heresies and blasphemies so I am hesitant to look to them for anything. With what you shared, I will give you how I understand it as ray put it;
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COMMENT: Oh really? "The LAW was nailed to the cross," was it? And do you have chapter and verse on that bit of unscriptural nonsense Col 2:14 "Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." God never nailed His "LAW" to the cross. The Covenant Law which IS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS was not a "handwriting of ordinances," but was rather chiseled IN STONE, and was placed IN the ark of the Covenant, not on the OUTSIDE of the ark as were the ordinances. You have not a clue as to what you are talking about.
COMMENT: Oh really? The law "stirs up the passions of the flesh" to sin, does it? If you are going to allude to Scripture, do it properly: Rom 7:7--" What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. "
So is it "THE LAW" that stirs up the passions of our flesh" to sin? Is that what Paul said? Is that what the Scriptures teach? No. Is therefore the law sin? NO. Well, what was it then that "stirred up the passions of Paul's flesh" when he had not repented of breaking God's law? Let's read it: "But S-I-N [not the law], taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence." SIN did that, not the law. The law merely pointed out just how bad Paul lusted without the Spirit of God in him (Rom. 8:9).
COMMENT: Are you so foolish to think that anyone will every be saved without first being JUDGED?
Judgment is NOW upon the House of God (I Pet. 4:17). EVERY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE JUDGED, either now (I Cor. 3:13-15) or later (Rev. 20:13-15). Neither now (I Cor. 11:31) or later (I Cor. 11:32).
All unrepented of homosexual acts will be severely judged, and they will be judged by THAT MAN, Whom you think you can flaunt your sins at and not suffer the consequences: Heb 10:26-7--" For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
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Ten Commandments is the old Covenant.
Deuteronomy 4:13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
Deuteronomy 9:9 When I went up on the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant that the Lord had made with you, I stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights; I ate no bread and drank no water.
Deuteronomy 9:11 At the end of the forty days and forty nights, the Lord gave me the two stone tablets, the tablets of the covenant.
God made a new one with us in which the laws were not written on stone tablets but upon our hearts.
"For finding fault with them, He says, Behold, the days come says the Lord, when I will make a NEW covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah [he is a JEW who is circumcised in his heart and spirit, Rom. 2:29]: NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT that I made with their fathers…" (Heb. 8:8-9).
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
By this our righteousness is to exceed that of the pharisees because the law was/is spiritual (Romans 7:14) but it could not be kept without Christ (See 10th commandment).
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was hate your enemies (and don't murder!) to the jews because they could not see the law as being spiritual became love [agape] your enemies. It goes beyond the outward physical appearance and straight to the heart of man. Hence while the pharisees appeared outwardly righteous by not breaking the ten commandments (Because only God knows the heart and whether you are 'coveting') they were inwardly dead and their righteousness but filthy rags.
Philippians 3:5-8 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
So Christ did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
The law is spiritual and can only be kept in Christ, love is the fulfillment of the law.
Luke 10:26-28 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Romans 13:9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
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It is not wrong to study the "Law" portions of Scripture. If, however, you think that you need to "keep" the law as ancient Israel attempted to do, you will accomplish very little. The reason for this is because "The LAW IS SPIRITUAL....." (Rom. 7:14). ONLY "Christ is the end [the goal, result, purpose, conclusion] of the law for righteousness in every one that believes" (Rom. 10:4). NO orthodox Jew can keep the law of God WITHOUT CHRIST! This is a lesson they will yet have to learn in Judgment.
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So in conclusion now, I believe, the hand writing ordinances, those things that are elementary which were contrary to us and not written on the stone tablets is everything else that is not the ten commandments--The old covenant. These things were completely done away with and all that remains now are the covenents (The old one is waxing away) which is the law written upon our hearts which could only ever be kept in Christ and through love. For God is love. Thus Christ has fulfilled the law.
2 Corinthians 3:5-14
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Hope that makes sense... I'm sorry I didn't take all the time to flesh out everything carm had to say. I'm still coming to grips with all this, its alot to digest and its the best I understand it right now.
Let me know if anything is confusing or unclear.
God bless,
Alex
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