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All from Adam and Noah?

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Dave in Tenn:
A more thorough 'passage' than just the one verse.  Maybe it will help.

1Co 15:21  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:21  for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead,
1Co 15:22  for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
1Co 15:23  and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

1Co 15:21  For since through man death came, and through man there is resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be restored to life.

I don't think vs 21 and vs 22 are saying the EXACT same thing, but rather verse 21 gives the concept and vs 22 the example.

Worth remembering too, perhaps, that "Adam" means "red/earthy".  The first time the word is used is in Genesis 1:26.  I've run this usage down, and "adam"  (H120 אדם) is the primary word used for any man, men, and mankind in general.  To me, it's kind of a nickname if it's used for an individual--like naming your dog "Dog".  From usage, the "meaning of the word" is used before a "name" is ever used.

Adam was never designed to live forever in Eden.  As Ray taught, he was as carnal as we are, not some kind of "glorified" extra-shiny human being.  We die just as he did, and just as all mankind/"red" has since the beginning of us.

In this way, we are ALL related to Adam.  We are all "ADAM", in fact, if we are "mankind".  And we are.  Our ultimate father, according to every genealogy I've seen in scripture, is GOD, not Adam. 

Do we have to be physical descendants of Jesus Christ in order to be "raised from the dead"?

Only thing I can think of to add:  There are 'theories' out there that put a lot of stock into "racial lineages" and how they operate in salvation.  I never saw Ray espouse any of them.  Even in the OT, God "chose" in sovereignty according to His own counsel, and justified according to faith.   
   

 

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: octoberose on April 29, 2015, 01:02:14 AM ---Thank you for finding that for me. Now my question:
  One of our verses for the reconciliation of all is I Corinthians 15:22, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."
 We teach that the All who die in Adam is the same as the All who will Live in Christ.  So, does that not mean that all of redeemed mankind have to be 'in Adam' as in related to Adam?

--- End quote ---

Hi Rose,

I think dave makes an excellent point. I am inclined to agree with him.

Also, if I may add, let me bring to your attention for verse 22.

Notice that it says not that "ALL IN CHRIST shall be made a live," but rather, "IN CHRIST, SHALL ALL...." in other words, THROUGH CHRIST will ALL be made alive. This includes every single creature of creation whether they were genealogically of adam or not. Lastly, remember what paul said, that God has made all nations of ONE BLOOD. So whether you are a descendant physically of adam or not doesn't change the fact that we all have the same one blood which courses through our veins.

Acts 17:25
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring [Race / Kindred].

As Dave said, The promise is NO LONGER after the FLESH. The old covenant is old, waxing away, and ready to vanish. It served its point at one time to bring about the salvation of all, to Herald the Messiah, but now as Christ put off the flesh and was raised so do we too put off the flesh. Circumcision of the flesh profits nothing. We worship God in spirit and truth.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 91 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 3
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Galatians 4
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
 
Galatians 6
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God [They are the Israel of God].


1 Peter 2:8-10 
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
 
God bless,
Alex

octoberose:
Thank you for the answers. I really appreciate all the time you took to  respond.
 Am I the only one that is a bit freaked out at the whole not related to Adam thing?  This is hard. It's like thinking you were related to Abraham Lincoln all your life and you find out you're  really related to John Wilkes Booth! :-[
 
 

indianabob:
Thanks for all the comments.

So here then is the question that my kids and I have.

Did God create a tribe of humans all at once, both male and female, from the red earth?

Similar I suppose to creating a herd of adult Elk to graze on the hillside?

Is it important to our understanding of God's ways of carrying out his plan that there needed to be a large herd of humans from which to choose the ones that would receive the "spirit" in man that made man able to wonder where they came from and to seek an answer?

Did God need to begin with a large tribe of humans in order to find one to carry the genetic strain into the future leading to a savior of all, including those who had been in the original tribe of multiple individuals?

This idea is quite strange to me, and I'm in a serious quandary over the very thought.

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: octoberose on April 29, 2015, 07:38:27 PM ---Thank you for the answers. I really appreciate all the time you took to  respond.
 Am I the only one that is a bit freaked out at the whole not related to Adam thing?  This is hard. It's like thinking you were related to Abraham Lincoln all your life and you find out you're  really related to John Wilkes Booth! :-[

--- End quote ---

Hi Rose,

Initially when I contemplated this idea it did seem strange but everything fits very well together. All the scriptures harmonize perfectly when you come to realize that adam wasn't the first man on the earth, just the first man to till the earth and dress it (farmer). It also helps explain why the Jews were so meticulous about their genealogies, keeping them pure, and recording their history. Why they also had such disdain for the gentiles, because they could literally trace their bloodline back to God through adam and the gentiles could not. It really helps shed light on how this new covenant which was prophecized to be a stumbling block to the jews, did become such a thing. Here is Christ telling them that their flesh profits nothing, this was never about the physical but was all along about the spiritual. "I had not known sin unless the law said, 'thou shall not covet.'" I tell you verily, that whosoever looks at a woman and lusts (covets) after her, has already committed adultery in his heart."

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

From the start... it was about the heart.

Deuteronomy 6:4-6
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Matthew 22:36-40King James Version
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So we see from the start this prophecy that God is going to call the gentiles:

Deuteronomy 32:19-21
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.v
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Isaiah 42:1-9
1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Romans 11
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

These verses and many others really come into sharp focus when you finally understand adam, his place in the world, and how the jew's viewed themselves because of him.

God bless,
Alex

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