> General Discussions
Three statements Christ made got me thinking, what in the world is going on.
Mike Gagne:
Hi John, your quote, (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.) End of quote.
lol There seems to be a lot of educated people here in this forum, makes me wonder?
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought
things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
When God whats you to know something then he will open your eyes to it and I don't see anywhere in His word where it says you must be educated. LRays education did not open his eyes to the truth, God did and I am sure LRay would have said the same thing.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Rick on June 03, 2015, 10:01:27 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on June 03, 2015, 07:36:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on June 03, 2015, 06:32:22 PM ---
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."
Joh 12:49 That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.
So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?
In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.
Joh 14:8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."
Joh 14:9 Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?
I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.
It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. :-\
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick,
It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
--- End quote ---
Hi Alex,
That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.
Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.
So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick,
I don't think I agree with you and here is why.
Jesus and God the Father are not the same though. Jesus is a being while God the Father is not. Jesus has a beginning, while God the Father does not. Jesus has a God while God the Father does not. Jesus said plainly that the Father is greater than He. Jesus is our brother, God the Father is our Father. God the Father dwells in a light which no man can approach, Jesus does not. God the Father is invisible spirit while Jesus is a visible Image of His Father. He has the likeness and form of a Man while God the Father does not. Everything proceeds out of the Father and through Christ. Everything is of the Father and by Christ.
I don't believe they have different personalities though. Jesus expressed everything His Father is but His Father is more than that too. The heavens of the Heavens cannot contain Him.
There is only one God. I agree with that completely.
God bless,
Alex
Kat:
Hi Rick,
1Cor 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord(G2962) Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Everything, all power and glory, everything goes back to the Father and comes from Him, BUT in this creation all and everything is being done "through" Jesus Christ.
Lord G2962 - kurios - From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir.
We will only ever know anything of the Father by what we see/hear/understand by Jesus Christ, He is the image of the Father (Col 1:15)... that is how we know the Father, through Christ and why He said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9).
How could Jesus say "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." ? Well His spirit had gone to the Father at His death and Jesus was certainly unconscious in the tomb.
Luke 23:46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit!" And having said this He breathed His last.
It was the Father who returned the spirit and life to Christ, which many Scripture point out. So it is a curious comment that Christ made "I will raise it up," maybe just a play on words that makes room for all the deception concerning Christ?
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
--- Quote from: Rick on June 03, 2015, 10:01:27 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on June 03, 2015, 07:36:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on June 03, 2015, 06:32:22 PM ---
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."
Joh 12:49 That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.
So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?
In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.
Joh 14:8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."
Joh 14:9 Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?
I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.
It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. :-\
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick,
It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
--- End quote ---
Hi Alex,
That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.
Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.
So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.
--- End quote ---
Rick,
Jesus is not his own Father.
Jesus Christ said:
17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.
18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have AUTHORITY to lay it down, and I have AUTHORITY TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN. This commandment I received from My Father."
Having the authority to take His life up again does not mean that He put the power of life back into His dead body.
He said to those he was talking to: Destroy this temple and I will raise (take) it up again on the third day.
Where in that statement of Jesus' do you see that Jesus said He would PUT THE POWER BACK INTO HIS OWN DEAD BODY? Where?Because I have looked and it's NOT IN THERE.
You're imagining and speculating about things and we've all done it, but try pay attention to the words now.
Did Jesus destroy Himself, Rick? Is that what He said He would do?
This is what He said: I have the authority to lay down My life. That does not mean: I WILL DESTROY MY OWN TEMPLE.
Why would He do such a thing after He drove out those DESTROYING THE TEMPLE?
Jesus said to them: YOU can destroy this temple but I'm going to raise it up on the third day.
Why do you interpret that to mean that He would impart life back into His own dead body, as IF HE COULD DO THAT WHEN HE WAS DEAD?
What happened after He was murdered? He DIED! He had no power at all. Did He have AUTHORITY? Sure! Did He have the ABILITY to UTILIZE THAT AUTHORITY WHEN HE WAS DEAD? NO! He had to have POWER to USE it. Where did He get the power from? His FATHER! His Father imparted life back into Jesus' DEAD BODY.
What happened then? He then had the ABILITY to USE the AUTHORITY He always had to then raise His now LIVE body UP from the grave.
The power to do everything He did came directly from His Father.
However, when He died, He was not able to UTILIZE the power.
He ALWAYS had the authority to raise His body up from the grave but in order to raise it, He had to have the POWER to raise it. Where did the power come from? His Father!
Jesus could not have put life back into His own dead body. Give me a break.
He RAISED HIS NOW LIFE-FILLED BODY UP FROM THE GRAVE!
In that sense, Yes, He took His life up again! Why is that so hard to believe?
He utilized the LIFE that was given back to Him by His FATHER and He put His two feet on the ground and rose His body UP from the tomb.
it's not hard to understand.
And it's, could not HAVE, not could not "of." It sounds like "of" phonetically, but trust me, the word is "have." Also, it's Himself, not "His self."
Now, is that clear or do you still have questions? If you say you don't understand, I will be astounded.
santgem:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on June 03, 2015, 07:42:37 PM ---I know the answer, but I cannot tell you because teaching is not allowed on the Forum.
If God will give you the understanding, Ray explains it at the end of his creed, which I have attached.
It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1. (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)
http://bible-truths.com/Creed.htm
Further keys are found in Col 1:15 to the end and 1Cor 8:6. However, true understanding can only come from God. You have to be ready to spiritually rock and roll. This most profound understanding is not for the young. (little hint: The Scriptures teach there is only One God. 8))
But most do not understand. Paul said in 1Cor 8:7 that not many know this, speaking to the Church about the nature of God. Two thousand years later, most in the true Church still do not get it.
I am beginning to see that it will be Jesus Himself Who will explain this most profound truth to the Elect in the age to come.
--- End quote ---
Greetings JFK,
Indeed it is very clear....... ;)
Please let me add verses. :)
When Jesus had a God.
Psalm 22. I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.
Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
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