> General Discussions
God means Placer
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Geoff on June 17, 2015, 07:51:04 AM ---Hello.
Ray said and I quote: " Jesus will always be a man". End quote.
Regards, Geoff.
--- End quote ---
Hi Geoff,
I believe the only place Ray said this was in his trinity paper which was written a long long time ago. Ray's understanding of Jesus and the Father was changing and had changed since then. You can see that throughout his many conferences and studies since that paper involving this topic.
It may also be possible ray did not mean literal flesh and blood man but spirit with the form or likeness of a man. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. Everyone must be born of the spirit and that which is born of the spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh. Those that are born of the spirit are invisible and powerful like the wind.
John 3:5-8
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Jesus was born of the Father and what is the Father? Spirit. That which is born of the spirit IS SPIRIT!
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Ay I am convinced now that Christ, born of His Father, is not flesh and blood man but is spirit with the likeness amd form of a man. We too, if we overcome, shall be raised with spiritual bodies but retain the form and likeness of humanity.
Good to see you posting again Geof, its been a LONG time.
God bless,
Alex
Kat:
Santegem,
--- Quote ---They are not literally one! Jesus is not the Father himself. Jesus is having the flesh. Jesus is God and Man at the same time, while Father is Spirit. Jesus is now having a God and Father while in the flesh and even after his resurrection. When Jesus is in the form of Jehovah, they are one!
--- End quote ---
John 10:30 I and My Father are one."
Jesus declared this as an absolute statement of truth, it cannot be construed to mean just while He was in the flesh. Being as One is what gives Father and Son the quality of God. The Father and the Son are always One, from the time He came forth (there was no Son before He was brought forth), until now and always will be. Humans will be sons/daughters of God as well, when they are resurrected to be One with them... that is the God family, that is being One to be united with the Father through Christ.
John 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
v. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
v. 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
--- Quote ---The question is, Is infant Jesus still creating? Where do all the people comes from when Jesus is still infant? Who creates people? Do people create people? Do you create people? Is God stop creating people up to this date? Is God stop creating things up to this date? Is God literally rested after creation and stop creating people and things up to this date? When Jesus ascended to heaven, did He not creating people and things up to this date or only the God the Father is creating?
--- End quote ---
This is the Father's creation, EVERYTHING depends on the Father, even the Son "for My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28, also John 10:29; 13:16)... it is from the power (Holy Spirit) of the Father that everything is done through the Son. The Father brought forth and put the Son as God over this creation, to do all His (the Father's) will through the Son. When Christ died it was the Father that continued to uphold this creation.
John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
v. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
v. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
1Cor 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
This is the basics of what I believe and all else hinges on this understanding.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Kat:
I'll add this from from the 'Is Jesus God" Bible study.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=12896.0 ---------------
There is a lot we don’t know. The Bible talks about the heavenly host, who do you suppose that is. Even who are the Elohim? Well we say there were 2. Yeah says who? Who says that Elohim was 2, I don’t read that, I don’t read that at all. [comment: It’s plurality, duality?] Elohim is the plurality of El and we translate it God. You could translate it any number of ways, you don’t need to use a pagan title. Like I said, you can translate it mighty, you could translate it eternal, I guess, with one exception. If it includes Jesus Christ, if He is not eternal, then you can not translate Elohim eternal, because one member of this Elohim would not be eternal.
But it’s an interesting question, I have kind of feeling that in some respects Jesus Christ may have had the appearance of a man. But I don’t really have anything to base that on. What do you think Gordon? [I think Jesus Christ was always a man. But what He became was flesh when He came here.] Yeah I kind of think that’s probably right. I’ve always felt He was definitely masculine, not feminine. Although there is El Shaddi. [He always appeared as a man in the Old Testament.] But I mean, El Shaddi, the breasted one. I think it is El Shaddi, the breasted God. That is very feminine.
Yeah I always felt Christ was masculine and therefore would probably be called a man. In the New Testament it says “the Man, Jesus,” it definitely calls Him ‘a man.’ Was He a man back then. [Comment: In what form, I don’t understand, in what form was He a man? Certainly not a physical man.] [Comment: Well He appeared as a man in the Old Testament.] Well yeah, but so did angels, so that doesn’t prove anything. [Comment: Here is an interesting Scripture here in Colossians that we haven’t talked about, that I think might be mentioned along with this subject.]
Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Yeah I’ve thought about that Scripture already.
---------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
John from Kentucky:
God revealed to me the answer to this nature of God question that Ray was researching before his death.
It is a most precious gift from God. What I did was to bring together all the Scriptures concerning Who God is. As the Scriptures say, "here a little, there a little, line upon line." I asked God to show me the answer. I trembled at His Word, that is I believed what He said and did not use my own opinion. And the Spirit showed me the truth. It is marvelous; the cutting edge of what the Scriptures teach because the greatest truth of the Scriptures is Who He is and What He wants.
The major problem with the above posts, both here and in other posts about this question, is that those writing do not know the truth about this matter. Most admit that they do not know, but still they teach anyway. Blind leaders of the blind. The Book of James issues the warning about the need to be careful in trying to teach.
I spoke with Ray and told him that I didn't think many on the Forum would "get" where he was going with this nature of God subject. Ray told me we must all go where the Spirit leads.
I am coming to see that apparently Jesus wants to teach His Elect this truth in the age to come. There is a Scripture to that effect. Also, it is Jesus Who is our Teacher. Paul in discussing this subject said "not many know this" and he was talking to the Church. That was 1900 years ago and the same seems to apply today. Ray was on the trail, but God took him before he could finish his complete writing; however, in reading Ray's creed I see where he knew the answer.
Pini56:
Hello Alex,
I have always been here. I don't post much because i don't like to debate or argue. i have been here since 2007, just reading all the posts and seeing what everybody is talking about. I have read and reread everything that Ray has written and have come to a point where i understand most of it. Not all.
But in my last post, I realise that Ray didn't mean a "Man" as in "flesh and blood". As jesus is so are we in this world, does that make me something other than a man or does it mean i am still "flesh and blood" but with the down payment of his "Spirit". I believe the latter. When Jesus was on this earth he was definitely "flesh and blood", but there was a difference, he had the fullness of God dwelling within him.
I didn't think that Ray meant that "Jesus will always be a man" as in "flesh and blood". I know what he meant and i believe i understand it. It's a bit hard for me to put it on paper. So I won't. But I will say that Jesus is the first of many. He is Pre Eminent. Therefore when he comes we will all change and be like him. So does that mean i will no longer be a "Man". In a sense i will still be a "Man" but no longer "flesh and blood".
Anyway that is all i have to say. Thanks everyone. Regards Geoff.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version