Evil Spirits

[gk@rivervalley]

I know Ray has spoken on this before but I fail to understand completely.  In some instances he speaks of evil spirits as 'false doctrine' whereas in scripture evil spirits have indeed 'haunted' (for lack of better) and have possessed humans. What is an evil spirit?  Were they created (purposed) and exist to cause harm, aggravation and plunder to the human population, and, do you think that type of activity is prevalent today?  In Job's events it appears they(?) may can cause events leading to death.  Scripture states only God knows the day of death of a person but that doesn't necessarily exclude the use of external influence, perhaps an evil spirit, to aid in the death of a human.  Since all 'events under the sun' are purposed by God are they acting on the will of god?  If so, what possible 'good' could be the outcome of such entities and their activities?  Humans are created depraved in the heart and mind and as such we are, or can be, equally motivated to carry out evil.  So why the aid of evil spirits....demons....if so?  Are there differences in evil spirit -verses- demon?

Lot's of general specifics I suppose and I'm certain this is all elementary to you folk, but, I can gain as maybe others will also.

gk

[lilitalienboi16]

I know Ray has spoken on this before but I fail to understand completely.  In some instances he speaks of evil spirits as 'false doctrine' whereas in scripture evil spirits have indeed 'haunted' (for lack of better) and have possessed humans. What is an evil spirit?  Were they created (purposed) and exist to cause harm, aggravation and plunder to the human population, and, do you think that type of activity is prevalent today?  In Job's events it appears they(?) may can cause events leading to death.  Scripture states only God knows the day of death of a person but that doesn't necessarily exclude the use of external influence, perhaps an evil spirit, to aid in the death of a human.  Since all 'events under the sun' are purposed by God are they acting on the will of god?  If so, what possible 'good' could be the outcome of such entities and their activities?  Humans are created depraved in the heart and mind and as such we are, or can be, equally motivated to carry out evil.  So why the aid of evil spirits....demons....if so?  Are there differences in evil spirit -verses- demon?

Lot's of general specifics I suppose and I'm certain this is all elementary to you folk, but, I can gain as maybe others will also.

gk

Hi Gk,

All the evil that exists in the world was created by God (Isaiah 45:7).

God created Satan to destroy (Isaiah 54:16, 1 Cor 5:5). He is a murderer from the very beginning (John 8:44).

God gave satan temporary power to do his evil and is thus termed the 'god of this world' (2 Cor 4:4, Matt. 4:8-9).

God puts a limit on evil by 'framing' it (Jeremiah 18:11).

Hence evil is never out of God's control or getting out of hand in His plan (Eph 1:11, see the story of Job also).

God Himself does not do evil though (Job 34:10, Deut 32:4).

All the evil in this creation is being used as an experience to humble humanity (Ecc. 1:13). It's a necessary part of a greater process for transforming all mankind into the image of Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:29).

Scriptures don't always show satan's precense in the dispatching or doing of evil but you can bet he is there. For example the "evil spirit FROM the Lord" (1 Sam 16:14-16, 19). I have no doubt satan was there causing these spirits to come forth and do the things they said they would do. Yet who created satan? God! So God is responsbility and satan is accountable. God created evil but God doesn't do evil.

We also see another time where lying spirits were sent into the mouth of prophets by the Lord to be the downfall of the king of isreal. I gaurentee you again that satan was there just like when he came before God to destroy job.

1Ki 22:20  And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
1Ki 22:21  And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22  And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23  Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Most importantly you have to understand that evil is NOT sin. It has no moral bias. When carnal men use evil then it becomes sin. However God created evil for the purpose of saving humanity (1 Cor 5:5). God turns evil to good at appointed times (Gen. 50:20).

Evil spirits certainly exist today and are doing exactly what they have been doing for so many thousands of years. All you have to do is turn on your T.V. to see that Satan is alive and well. The god of this world is running things just as He has for a long time now. As ray said, Man is either in war, getting out of war, or preparing for war. In the end though, God is responsible for everything and certainly takes that responsbility upon himself by dying for the sins of the world and by reconciling every last thing to Himself.

This is how I understand it and God willing it will help you better understand the Sovereignty of God and the existance of evil.

God bless,
Alex

[lilitalienboi16]

One other thing I will add is that God has a plan and He has a will. Sometimes His plan for accomplishing that Will can seem almost like contradictions. Just think about pharoe in Egypt and how God told pharoe to let His people go but then hardened pharoe's heart so that he would not. Paul explains this as God's right in being The Potter and we the clay. He has the ability to make vessels of honor and dishonor along the way towards accomplishing His will. Another example is that God will's for all humanity to be saved but His plan right now is that the vast majority of humanity doesn't believe in Him.

Isaiah 55:8-11
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God's plan is perfect though and He is perfect. So God won't fail, His word won't return to Him void. He will accomplish all His desires in the end.

God bless,
Alex

[rick]

Since all 'events under the sun' are purposed by God are they acting on the will of god? y

Satan or any other evil spirits or demons, however one coins them do not have free will anymore than we do.

[Kat]

Since all 'events under the sun' are purposed by God are they acting on the will of god?  If so, what possible 'good' could be the outcome of such entities and their activities?  Humans are created depraved in the heart and mind and as such we are, or can be, equally motivated to carry out evil.  So why the aid of evil spirits....demons....if so?  Are there differences in evil spirit -verses- demon?

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it. (CLV)

Well it seems that this world is intended to have a vast array of evil and wickedness, yes from humans carrying out their share, but there is the whole other spiritual dominion. I believe there are spirit being that interact with human in a multitude of ways, demons (also known as devil's angels, working wickedness are mentioned many times in Scripture.

Mat 25:41  "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

That the elect will judge 'angels' makes me wonder if that is referring to the devil's angels? But I cannot even begin to imagine what all is going on in that dominion and what will be worked out in that enormous aspect of God's creation.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dave in Tenn]

I've "seen" some things, but whether what I "saw" was a glimpse into another realm, or a presence in this one, or a vision, or an evil imagination, or an hallucination, I can't say. 

But I've no doubt that Ray was right in saying that "demons" are false doctrines.  The word itself means "little teachings".  And these I HAVE seen, felt, experienced, and been affected by, possessed by, and placed in bondage to.  "False Doctrines" are not simply boxes to be ticked or avoided when choosing our "doctrinal positions".  But that's to be lived, and can't really be explained very well.

From Thayers:

G1142
δαίμων
daimōn
Thayer Definition:
1) a god, a goddess
1a) an inferior deity, whether good or bad
2) in the NT, an evil spirit
Part of Speech: noun masculine or feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from daio (to distribute fortunes)


From Strongs:

δαίμων
daimōn
dah'ee-mown
From δαίω daiō (to distribute fortunes); a demon or super natural spirit (of a bad nature): - devil.

BOTH of those 'definitions' make theological assumptions, imo.  The words used by the writers under the inspiration of God were precise and meaningful...used by translators and preachers, not always so-much so.

It's interesting to note that there are only three times in the NT when a "daimon" (usually translated in the KJV as "devil" is used for what might be considered a single 'being'.  The rest of the times that the KJV mentions 'devils', the word used is a compound word:

δαιμονίζομαι
daimonizomai
 
which has to do completely with the 'effect' of the 'devil'--to be "under the influence of" "possessed by" or similar.

"Spirits" in the KJV Greek usually comes from the Greek πνεῦμα pneuma.  So are "evil spirits" "demons"?  I can tell you the word used is not the same, and that's all I can tell you.

 

[Dave in Tenn]

One other small correction that may have large impact.  We are neither created nor born 'depraved' in heart and mind.  We are created and born 'weak'.  If we are ever 'depraved', it came later.  And no thought ever thought by man is more 'depraved' then that God will torture any of His creatures/sons and daughters for all eternity.

[Gina]

I've "seen" some things, but whether what I "saw" was a glimpse into another realm, or a presence in this one, or a vision, or an evil imagination, or an hallucination, I can't say. 

But I've no doubt that Ray was right in saying that "demons" are false doctrines.  The word itself means "little teachings".  And these I HAVE seen, felt, experienced, and been affected by, possessed by, and placed in bondage to.  "False Doctrines" are not simply boxes to be ticked or avoided when choosing our "doctrinal positions".  But that's to be lived, and can't really be explained very well.

From Thayers:

G1142
δαίμων
daimōn
Thayer Definition:
1) a god, a goddess
1a) an inferior deity, whether good or bad
2) in the NT, an evil spirit
Part of Speech: noun masculine or feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from daio (to distribute fortunes)


From Strongs:

δαίμων
daimōn
dah'ee-mown
From δαίω daiō (to distribute fortunes); a demon or super natural spirit (of a bad nature): - devil.

BOTH of those 'definitions' make theological assumptions, imo.  The words used by the writers under the inspiration of God were precise and meaningful...used by translators and preachers, not always so-much so.

It's interesting to note that there are only three times in the NT when a "daimon" (usually translated in the KJV as "devil" is used for what might be considered a single 'being'.  The rest of the times that the KJV mentions 'devils', the word used is a compound word:

δαιμονίζομαι
daimonizomai
 
which has to do completely with the 'effect' of the 'devil'--to be "under the influence of" "possessed by" or similar.

"Spirits" in the KJV Greek usually comes from the Greek πνεῦμα pneuma.  So are "evil spirits" "demons"?  I can tell you the word used is not the same, and that's all I can tell you.

That's interesting. Demons (false doctrines) can be defined "to distribute fortunes."

FALSE (lying) DOCTRINES:

Satan in the Garden

4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.

5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave [distributed] some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

DISTRIBUTE (false) FORTUNES... 

11"And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over [the Queen/Babylon who lived sensuously to glorify herself], because no one buys their cargoes any more--

12 cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,...

DISTRIBUTE (counterfeit) FORTUNES

The Temptation of Jesus

8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;

9 and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."
'

DISTRIBUTE (counterfeit) FORTUNES

and asked, "How much will you pay me to betray Jesus to you?" And they gave him thirty pieces of silver.

[Ian 155]

I know Ray has spoken on this before but I fail to understand completely.  In some instances he speaks of evil spirits as 'false doctrine' whereas in scripture evil spirits have indeed 'haunted' (for lack of better) and have possessed humans. What is an evil spirit?  Were they created (purposed) and exist to cause harm, aggravation and plunder to the human population, and, do you think that type of activity is prevalent today?  In Job's events it appears they(?) may can cause events leading to death.  Scripture states only God knows the day of death of a person but that doesn't necessarily exclude the use of external influence, perhaps an evil spirit, to aid in the death of a human.  Since all 'events under the sun' are purposed by God are they acting on the will of god?  If so, what possible 'good' could be the outcome of such entities and their activities?  Humans are created depraved in the heart and mind and as such we are, or can be, equally motivated to carry out evil.  So why the aid of evil spirits....demons....if so?  Are there differences in evil spirit -verses- demon?

Lot's of general specifics I suppose and I'm certain this is all elementary to you folk, but, I can gain as maybe others will also.

gk

An evil Spirit is unseen... I believe its main function is to oppose or exult itself above God by manipulating our thoughts or our understanding (they dwell/operate in high places)heavenly places.To me that represents our understanding impacting our minds or thoughts .They are false spirits and they are liers... their "father" is the devil. Our Father is God

I am not sure that a demon and an evil spirit are one and the same

[Mike Gagne]

Dave I agree, I seen somethings myself, what I seen was darkness all around and there was things fluttering around in that darkness, what I seen was right there with me, whether in a vision or in another realm like you said but I seen it. It is there, it is all around us!

Psa 44:19  Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death.

Job 10:21-22   (KJV)

21  Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
22  A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness

Eph 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places


Psalms 23:4   (KJV)

4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

[gk@rivervalley]

Hi Dave, I appreciate the correction, it's a small thing but no impact as 'depraved' can be defined as 'morally corrupt', and morally corrupt we are.  I'm sure we could argue that for a time but there would be no point as we would find ourselves, at the end, agreeing that 'weakness', first or whenever, leads to actions that show as morally depraved, corrupt, 'weak', what have you.  A small nugget but nonetheless useless in any argument, which we have none.   And I'm way past the point of believing the 'demon' that a creator would use eternal torture for his creation regardless of how 'bad' we are.  Thanks for the definition of demon, and your check box example is good.  That helps.  Appreciate you sharing.

"An evil Spirit is unseen... I believe its main function is to oppose or exult itself above God by manipulating our thoughts or our understanding (they dwell/operate in high places)heavenly places.To me that represents our understanding impacting our minds or thoughts .They are false spirits and they are liers.."-----Ian

"manipulating our thoughts"....."impacting our minds or thoughts"

Ian, that's about as centered as it can get.  For me anyway.  Thank you. 

While I can't admit to 'seeing things' (and I hope I never do), I am in constant argument with myself, and for some time now, as to why at one point in life I was ravishing in the 'solidness' of my belief in God/Christ and scripture, only now to find myself doubting EVERYTHING.  I don't want to get centered on me, (not the reason for the post) but the doubting is undeniably strong and gets stronger every single day and I wonder where this could be coming from.  I've known nothing like it.  It's relentless, tiring, and (whoever/whatever it is)...is devouring every strand of 'belief' and I wonder 'where is my God who does not abandon..??, (or at least I always believed he wouldn't.) 

So back to my post, is it possible that 'evil spirit's are indeed 'roaming the earth' looking for any weakness to devour, and if they "do not have free will any more that we do"---Rick...then why would this creator need to 'send forth' in such a manner?  If that is 'truth' then the conquering is a silly point as 'we all' have no ability to fight those battles.  We are not, and will not be 'warriors' in an un-seen battle where we have not the armor to defend ourselves in the fight. If there are 'evil spirit's that wage these battles (in the human mind) they know we are armor-less.  They must laugh at our attempts to fight by 're-call' of scripture verses.  Where is the truth?...where is our 'defense' mechanism and how do we, as mere 'weak' humans, trigger our defense to gain a foot-hold in what seems a losing battle in the front?

[Kat]

While I can't admit to 'seeing things' (and I hope I never do), I am in constant argument with myself, and for some time now, as to why at one point in life I was ravishing in the 'solidness' of my belief in God/Christ and scripture, only now to find myself doubting EVERYTHING.  I don't want to get centered on me, (not the reason for the post) but the doubting is undeniably strong and gets stronger every single day and I wonder where this could be coming from.  I've known nothing like it.  It's relentless, tiring, and (whoever/whatever it is)...is devouring every strand of 'belief' and I wonder 'where is my God who does not abandon..??, (or at least I always believed he wouldn't.) 

So back to my post, is it possible that 'evil spirit's are indeed 'roaming the earth' looking for any weakness to devour, and if they "do not have free will any more that we do"---Rick...then why would this creator need to 'send forth' in such a manner?  If that is 'truth' then the conquering is a silly point as 'we all' have no ability to fight those battles.  We are not, and will not be 'warriors' in an un-seen battle where we have not the armor to defend ourselves in the fight. If there are 'evil spirit's that wage these battles (in the human mind) they know we are armor-less.  They must laugh at our attempts to fight by 're-call' of scripture verses.  Where is the truth?...where is our 'defense' mechanism and how do we, as mere 'weak' humans, trigger our defense to gain a foot-hold in what seems a losing battle in the front?

Hi gk, I believe that it is very important, even critical to our faith, to have some way to feel secure in truth, for me it is the Scripture. I totally believe that God inspired the Apostles in their writings and what is now our NT. Now I also recognize that translations have corrupted that to a degree, so God sent Ray Smith and now I have confidence in studying, that I can overcome the error and see the absolute truth that were in the original writings.

So I rely heavily on God's Word to teach me and I firmly believe God uses it to reveal everything that He desires for us to know concerning His truth and that in turn gives us confidence and assurance. Yes there are unseen forces/powers that we war against in this world...

Eph 6:12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

But God has given us a sure defense that will not fail us.

Eph 6:10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
v. 11  Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

v. 13  Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
v. 14  Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
v. 15  and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
v. 16  above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
v. 17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
v. 18  praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

All of this is revealed in God Word (the 'Bread' of life) if we study and believe what it says. Of course praying is our way of showing we seek contact with God, by taking that time and making the effect to talk to Him... He wants us to show we desire Him!

John 7:37  On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
v. 38  He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

John 4:13  Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,
v. 14  but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."

John 6:35  And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

I will add to what Kat posted about our warfare. Scripture is very powerful and not to be under estimated. The Word of God made flesh is Jesus and demons tremble at His very name.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Matthew 8:28 When He [Jesus] had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

God is our defender and protector from all forces in this world be they of men or other dominions. There is no power other than God.

Deuteronomy 31:6 "Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."

2Ki 6:15-17 "And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, "Alas, my master! What shall we do?" So he answered, "Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them." And Elisha prayed, and said, "LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see." Then the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and hesaw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha."

Psalm 34:7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them.

Lastly, we are more than conquorers in all things through Christ Jesus. We are certainly not defenseless for if God is for us, who can be against us?

Romans 8:31-37
"What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written:

"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."

Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

You asked, "why would the creator need to send forth in this way?" It's all part of God's plan. He calls it a strange plan and tells us not to lean on our own understanding. The pot is marred in the hands of the potter the first time it is made so he makes it again a second time. We are being made again a second time. Conceived by the seed of God from on high so that we can be birthed spiritually into the kingdom of God. God's ways are perfect and He is perfect. You have to trust in Him.

Isaiah 28:21 For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim, He will be angry as in the Valley of Gibeon— That He may do His work, His awesome work, And bring to pass His act, His strange act.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;

2 Samuel 22:31As for God, His way is perfect; The word of the Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him

Psalm 18:30As for God, His way is perfect; The word of the Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him.

God bless,
Alex

[lilitalienboi16]

2 Timothy 3:12-17 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

[Gina]

I am in constant argument with myself, and for some time now, as to why at one point in life I was ravishing in the 'solidness' of my belief in God/Christ and scripture, only now to find myself doubting EVERYTHING.  I don't want to get centered on me, (not the reason for the post) but the doubting is undeniably strong and gets stronger every single day and I wonder where this could be coming from.  I've known nothing like it.  It's relentless, tiring, and (whoever/whatever it is)...is devouring every strand of 'belief' and I wonder 'where is my God who does not abandon..??, (or at least I always believed he wouldn't.)  

21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting;

5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.

7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,

8 being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

James 4:8   Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.



You asked, where is the doubt coming from?  It's coming from you, gk.  Nothing out there can make you doubt.   




37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,

39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


You have a choice.   

When Thomas was doubting, Jesus didn't look for the one outside of Thomas as the cause for Thomas' doubt.

John 20:25  So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe."

27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."

28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."



1 I, Paul, myself entreat you, by the meekness and gentleness of Christ—I who am humble when face to face with you, but bold toward you when I am away!—

3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh.

4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,492.msg3821.html#msg3821

[Gina]

So, by the power of the [ s ]word of God, I have been given the ability to utterly demolish any and all arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and I have taken every thought captive to obey Christ,  that anything out there can make you, or me or anyone else doubt. 

Acts 5:

33 When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them.

34 But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while.

35 And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men.

36 For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.

37 After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered.

38 So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail;

39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!"


If what you have learned is from God, you can doubt all you want, but won't be able to overthrow it.


By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.

However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" ... For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our report?


And just to sum up:

Perseverance in Temptation

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his/her own lust.


1 What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you?

2 You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask.

3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.

4 You adulterous people!c Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

5 Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, "He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us"?

6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."

7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.

10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.



I like the lyrics to this song by Sheryl Crow:

Something is happening
Everything's different but everything is fine, yea
This is the good stuff
Yesterday's only what you leave behind
It's only in your mind

No use pretending
You never existed until you saw the light, yea
Oh you're just beginning
You haven't missed it, it's all ahead of you
And you know what to do

You gotta talk to the One Who made you
Talk to the One who understands
Talk to the One who gave you
All the light in your eyes

Here comes the world
And she is beautifully mysterious
She's got it all and you say
"Give it to me"  <----- (bad call, ha ha!)

Nobody's happy
That's not the world I know inside
Where everybody hides 

You gotta talk to the One Who loves you
Talk to the One who understands

...

[rick]

I know Ray has spoken on this before but I fail to understand completely.  In some instances he speaks of evil spirits as 'false doctrine' whereas in scripture evil spirits have indeed 'haunted' (for lack of better) and have possessed humans. What is an evil spirit?  Were they created (purposed) and exist to cause harm, aggravation and plunder to the human population, and, do you think that type of activity is prevalent today?  In Job's events it appears they(?) may can cause events leading to death.  Scripture states only God knows the day of death of a person but that doesn't necessarily exclude the use of external influence, perhaps an evil spirit, to aid in the death of a human.  Since all 'events under the sun' are purposed by God are they acting on the will of god?  If so, what possible 'good' could be the outcome of such entities and their activities?  Humans are created depraved in the heart and mind and as such we are, or can be, equally motivated to carry out evil.  So why the aid of evil spirits....demons....if so?  Are there differences in evil spirit -verses- demon?

Lot's of general specifics I suppose and I'm certain this is all elementary to you folk, but, I can gain as maybe others will also.

gk

An evil Spirit is unseen... I believe its main function is to oppose or exult itself above God by manipulating our thoughts or our understanding.

Hi Ian,

According to my understanding from  Ray's writings is that Satan is the waster, created for the purpose of bringing temptations in our lives, I know the story from Christendom how they once led me to believe Satan was this arch angle who exult himself above God which is not the truth at all.

Satan was created Satan, a murder and a liar from the beginning and will remain so until he emerges from the lake of fire.

Why do you believe these evil spirits oppose God or exult themselves above God ? They would have to be capable of free will to do either or and we know free will is only a myth that doesn't 
hold water.

When I think about the angles that kept not their first estate I think what caused them to give up their first estate? God is the originator of ALL causes and all causes are according to His pleasure and purpose according to His counsel.

Im sorry Ian, your statement comes straight out of Christendom's false doctrine of theology. Satan can only do what is given him to do from above and nothing more or even for that matter nothing less either.

Satan has his job to do given him by our creator and the creator will make sure Satan does his job well because our being made in the image of God depends on Satan doing his job well.

[Mike Gagne]

Is evil a bad thing? No its not, it is a tool in the hand of Jesus!

Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

As Kat had stated with scripture that God has given man a experience of evil to humble him.

gk, your question; Where is the truth?...where is our 'defense' mechanism and how do we, as mere 'weak' humans, trigger our defense to gain a foot-hold in what seems a losing battle in the front?

Where is the truth? Jesus is the truth, His word is truth. It is not a battle of good and evil, it is the knowledge of good and evil. Kat gave you scriptures Eph 6:10 -18 put on the whole armour of God! Jesus is the whole armour of God, Jesus is the truth and the truth will set you free!

[rick]

Is evil a bad thing? No its not, it is a tool in the hand of Jesus!

Hi Mike,

Although evil is a tool used in the hand of God to humble us, its not a good thing . One day evil will be abolished . It is a evil thing to commit murder or to abuse animals or to steal so on and so forth.

[Mike Gagne]

Is evil a bad thing? No its not, it is a tool in the hand of Jesus!

Hi Mike,

Although evil is a tool used in the hand of God to humble us, its not a good thing . One day evil will be abolished . It is a evil thing to commit murder or to abuse animals or to steal so on and so forth.

Hi Rick

Its a tool Rick, its a good tool in the hands of God to produce Sons. If evil is a bad thing then why did God create it? Back to what was stated, a experience of evil God gave to man to humble him!

Eze 6:10  And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.

Ezekiel 14:22-23   (KJV)

22  Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.
23  And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord GOD.

Evil has its purpose Rick and it shall all pass through the Fire...

Rick I never said it was good for men to do evil.