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Is Jesus the Eternal Lord of All?

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zarlareignofthefairies:
Let me be more clear. Ray said God is not a closed Trinity but an expanding family so it seems to me that that is what he was saying, that we will all be God some day. So to put it like this '' that God may all in all'' or to rearrange the words ''that all may be God''.

It really seems blasphemous to say that and that's why I sounded so sheepish in my other posts but I thought I would just come right out and say it.

God bless you all with His grace, shalom, and truth,
Jonathan 8)

Dave in Tenn:
Certainly God will be everything to everybody, considering all is of God...without Him, nothing that has been made was made...in Him we live and move and have our being.  In that sense, God already IS everything to everybody.  Without Him--nothing.

But I also think you have phrased it well in your last post.  "God" is an expanding family.  If we are in that family (and we all surely will be) then we will all be God.  Now we have this Spirit of Adoption.  Now are we the children of God, but it does not yet appear what we shall be.  We know that when He appears, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Jesus is first.  There can't be another first.  He will always be first.  How closely we will follow what He is remains to be seen.  We'll be LIKE Him.  Maybe I've got this a bit backwards, but it seems to me that there is something about seeing Him as He is that makes us 'like Him'.

If 'we' are gods, it begs the question:  what kind of god am I?  I'm not the kind of god that created all things, and by Whom all things exist/subsist.  Some things are His alone...but that doesn't mean we don't share in them.  We also 'form' and 'give birth to'.  What are we 'forming' and 'giving birth to'?

Concerning "I AM"...I think it's not correct to say 'eternity past' if it's referring to measuring  'infinite time' backwards.  God is the God of the ages.  The Ages are in Him.  I'd recommend this study and transcript.       

http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible Study 11-30-08 Pt. 1.mp3
http://bible-truths.com/audio/Bible Study 11-30-08 Pt. 2.mp3

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10538.0.html

Ian 155:

--- Quote from: Kat on June 25, 2015, 08:30:13 AM ---

--- Quote from: zarlareignofthefairies on June 23, 2015, 11:09:33 PM ---When Jesus delivers up the kingdom to God the Father will He still be our Master forever? Was Ray saying that someday we will be on the same level as Jesus?
--- End quote ---

I don't think this point was really addressed in the other post, so I just wanted to add this from the trinity paper.

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html -----------------------

Let it be known: NONE of these Scriptures take away from the glories of God’s grandest achievements in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. His name is now and will forever be ABOVE ALL ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE! AMEN!
---------------------------------------------------------------

It is true that some day all in the human race will become sons/daughters of God, so yes equal in that aspect. But I don't think you can say we will be on the same "level" as in rank or position as Christ... He is and always will be above all else in the creation.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

--- End quote ---

Im thinking Jesus is the "expressed" image of The Father and if so then ...

 ...2Co 3:18 Now we all, with uncovered face, mirroring the Lord's glory, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the spirit."

perhaps the underlined could be spurious

Kat:
Well Ian, Ray has spoken on this many times, in great detail, this is from the conference 'WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS? & WHO IS HIS FATHER?'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.msg34711.html#msg34711 ---

Jesus Christ and God the Father ARE the Holy Spirit! Jesus Christ is that Spirit! 

John 16:7  … I will send him (the Comforter) to you. v. 15  … He shall take of Mine, and shall show it unto you.

What is He going to take of Christ? His Spirit. Where did Christ get that Spirit? From God the Father. But He is going to take of Christ, because it’s going to be the personality of Christ, see. 

Paul didn’t say, I’m crucified with God, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but the FATHER lives in me. No, it’s, “I have been crucified with CHRIST, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but CHRIST lives in me.” (Gal 2:20)  But see it’s the personality of Christ, that is the spirit that lives in us and that spirit comes from God. So we can call it God’s Holy Spirit, even though it’s channeled through Christ. Jehovah /Elohim, God the Father(Elohim), you know. 

[Someone says;  Isa 9:6  For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.]
Some will say wait a minute, “The everlasting Father?” Christ (Jehovah) says, He was a Father to Israel. He’s the eonian God to Israel. So are we understanding God better? 

Okay, let’s take this a little farther. We read about God/Elohim, we learn about the Lord God - Jehovah/Elohim, and sometimes we hear about El. 
Now we know in the garden, Christ... though Jehovah is doing the talking, because no man has ever heard God the Father. So the Lord God (Jehovah/Elohim) said unto the woman, “and the Lord God said…” Why did He say ‘said’? Because He’s the spokesman, He’s the Word. He’s the Word of who?  Elohim, and He is Jehovah/Elohim and His Father is Elohim. There is only one Elohim. So it’s the Lord God - Jehovah/Elohim.

When we come to the NT then we read about God. Jesus Christ said, they ask Him what is the greatest commandment, He said “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” (Matt 22:37). The Greek says, you shall love the Kurios your Theos with all your heart and so on. 

Kurios/Theos… who was He talking about? The Father. He’s quoting the OT, that comes out of Deuteronomy, where Jehovah Himself says, “You shall love the Lord your God” (Deu 6:5). Not Kurios/Theos, but Jehovah/Elohim. 

Well who are we to worship with all our heart? Jehovah/Elohim or Kurios/Theos of the NT, who we know is the Father! But Jehovah/Elohim (where it’s quoted from the OT), is Jesus Christ. Who is it talking about? It’s always talking about BOTH. ALWAYS!

Even though we give Jesus the designation Jehovah/Elohim, it still includes the Father. Why? Because there is only ONE Elohim! He is the Jehovah, one God - there is the Father, one God and together they are the one God. You just have to believe the scriptures. 

John 10:30  I and My Father are one.
v

God doesn’t change. When you have perfect character, perfect love, as Christ and the Father say that they have, you don’t change. There is no variableness of turning in God the Father and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jehovah Elohim is the Lord God of Malachi 3:6, which is Jehovah Elohim and just as much God as Jehovah and “I change not.”

Now He talked through that night about how He is in God and God is in Him. Then He starts to incorporate the disciples, now it’s “those whom You have given Me.” He’s praying here in (John) chapter 17 after He said, return to the glory I had with You before the foundation of the world. 

Then He says, “those who will believe in Me through their word, that they may all be one, just as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me. The glory that You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one even as (in the same way, in like manner) We are one,” (John 17: 20-22).

We don’t become mass hypnotized robots, but we become one in spirit, one in perfection and one in love. He goes on to say, “that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us….. that they may be one, even as We are one, I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one;” (John 17:21-22)

These are some of the reasons, you will be hearing me say more, everything is one. It all comes down to one thing. There is one God and God is above everything there is. There is one God. 

So everything really is ONE. All the other little twos, threes and fours are really of no consequence, compared to the ONE, see. The One, the all.
So we read in Ephesians, Paul understood this, he didn’t copy it from some other place, he understood it. 

Eph 4:1-3  I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the calling with which you are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit…

See “the unity of the Spirit” there is the key, we are one in and through SPIRIT. We are individuals, I have my personality, somebody else has their personality and some don’t have a personality, you know. But we’re all individuals, but we can be all one in spirit, that is what binds us together as one, spirit. So “endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit.” 

Now the church is trying to create a unity. They want to get a united council of churches, they want to create a unity. But you can’t create your own unity, there already is a unity. Now either you come into the unity or you don’t. But you don’t create a unity, because the unity is already there. Now if you are on the outside that’s your problem. You don’t create some unity with somebody else, you don’t bring two heretics together in unity. The unity is there and we have to endeavor to keep it and stay within it.

So then He says in verse 4, “…the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace (and harmony). There is one body…”   The body of Christ. 

We are all part of the body of Christ and in Corinthians Paul likened us to different parts of the body. You know one might be an ear, one might be the mouth, one might be the hand and one the foot. Maybe we think the foot is not that comely a part of the body, but it is an very important part.  Because the foot carries the hand wherever it has to go to do it’s thing. All are very important parts of the body. 

But there is only one body, one spirit. Even as you are called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism. There’s only one baptism that counts, that’s Christ’s baptism. Now if your not baptized into Christ, your water baptism is of no value whatsoever.
v

It’s only ONE baptism and that’s Jesus Christ. We are baptized into His death. You say I thought we were suppose to be baptized in water? No. We are baptized into His death, that’s the thing that counts. It is only one baptism, there is only one circumcision, you either get that one or you have none at all.

Col 2:10-11  And you are complete in Him, who is the Head of all principality and power, in whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands…

No skin, no hands, no knife, that's circumcision, okay. Continuing verse 11 “… putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.” That's what it represents, “the flesh by the circumcision of CHRIST!” That is the only way it counts. 

Col 2:12  buried with Him in baptism, in whom also you were raised through the faith of the working of God, raising Him from the dead.

Then you say, 'alright Ray there it is, we have to be baptized, can’t you read it in context?' The circumcision is without hands, the baptism is without water. This is Christ’s circumcision, Christ’s baptism, Christ is the anointing, it’s Christ, Christ, Christ, all of it.
v


"There is ONE GOD" (I Cor.8:5); "God is SPIRIT" (John 6:24);

"by ONE SPIRIT  baptized into one body" (I Co. 12:13);

"But he that is joined unto the Lord IS ONE SPIRIT" (I Cor. 6:17); "I and My Father are ONE" (John 10:30)

"There is ONE BODY, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in ONE HOPE, of your calling; ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, Who is ABOVE ALL, and THROUGH ALL, and IN YOU ALL" (Eph. 4:4-6).

HENCE: WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT JESUS, WE KNOW ABOUT HIS FATHER

Jesus spoke the words of His Father and did the works of His Father (John 14:10 & 14:24 & 5:19).

Jesus Christ "declares the FATHER" (John 1:18). And reveals the Father to whomever the Son desires (Matt. 11:27). Jesus was revealing the Father to the disciples His whole ministry, but Phillip missed it: (John 14:9-11). Remember when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM"? (John 8:58). He was also revealing HIMSELF as the God of the Old Testament.

Jesus Christ IS THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!
He is THE GOD OF THE BIBLE!
Jesus Christ is the ONLY REVELATION OF GOD THAT WE HAVE.
Even the Holy Spirit we all have comes from God THROUGH Jesus Christ.
Jesus is that Comforter, that Spirit.
Our Saviour and our Brother.
The Son of God.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

zarlareignofthefairies:
Thanks Dave in Tenn and everyone else. This is extremely fascinating stuff. I can only imagine what life will be like in the last two great eons and at the end of time when God is all in all.

God bless you all with lots of grace
Jonathan

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