> General Discussions
I will pour out My spirit on all flesh...
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on July 27, 2015, 08:21:37 AM ---Ian, I've read your posts and I strongly disagree with your conclusions.
You mock the idea of a literal ressurection yet this is exactly what Ezekiel saw. A very literal, physical, non spiritual, ressurection.
Ezekiel 37:1-10
1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army
THIS IS LITERAL ? WOW
Furthermore you did not respond to my post where I shared very strong witnesses for a future day, last day, return of Christ and ressurection of the dead. Including what happens to the elect on that day which is similar in nature to what occurs to the world but with a twist--They put on the heavenly image. They recieve spiritual-immortal bodies.
OK forgive me for not answering that one here goes we are given GOD Like BODIES if there is such a thing seeing God is SPIRIT "And The HUMAN SHALL BECOME AS WE ARE" NOT FLESH AND BONE BUT UNSEEN "BODIES" if you want to apply BODY I can see a BODY I CANT SEE SPIRIT - perhaps we wont BE LIKE HIM we drag this tent with us - but "St PETER" WONT LET YOU IN ,IF YOU ARE REMOTELY FLESHLY
IS THERE AN IMMORTAL BODY (as in my body)?
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Matthew 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which SLEEP in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Just READ what is right infront of you and don't try to rewrite it with blue letters. The future ressurection is very real and for the vast majority of God's creation it will occur as described by Ezekiel the prophet of God.
Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
What has this to do with what Kat asked ME? that is do you think we are raised with Natural literal bodies
Notice paul says, 'we shall [future] ALSO be in the likeness of His ressurection.' So paul is very careful to not say that we have yet been raised from the dead but that we should 'walk in the newness of life.' He says the ressurection will be FUTURE. I believe paul did this because its all about the mindset we have:
Your future and my future may not be the same time right? - just asking, cause you inserted the word not GOD ever read the scripture "NOW IS THE TIME" ?
2Co 6:2 For He is saying, "In a season acceptable I reply to you, And in a day of salvation I help you.Lo! Now is a most acceptable era! Lo! Now is a day of salvation!"
Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 3:18-21
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
So do you agree? our talk is(should be, spirit not Literal
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Our conversation, our minds, is in the Heavens because we CONSIDER ourselves dead to the physical body by the working of God's spirit in us. This then allows us to be have the mind of Christ, to be thinking upon the spiritual things and as you stated earlier, experience that 'renewing of the mind.'
so true the "consider" part is faith so are there some folk walking according, NOW
Romans 12: 1-2
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
No problems with the above,how do you interpret it- so you can assist my wayward thinking - are there different bodies ? terrestrial and celestial ?
Ephesians 4:22-24
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Yes, when you cast off ADAM or ADAM IS CAST OFF YOU and PUT ON CHRIST this is NEW, this happens in the heavens, above the flesh, above the natural understanding
We 'die daily' not because we are resurrected daily but because salvation is a process and we must constantly put off this flesh so that we can mind the things of the spirit (renewing of the mind). So that we can prove what is that 'perfect will of God.' We see in part, we know in part.
Now you getting desparate, re read what you wrote ...What has this to do with being raised spiritually.You cant prove anything without God guiding you
1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
You chided Kat for asking if she thinks we will see God one day who is spirit. There is much I want to say on this topic but I am not permitted as it borders on teaching. I will only state what anyone can search up in scripture and that is:
No I did Not Chide Kat for what you quoted, Kat said "I guess a simple question to you Ian, is do you think there is a literal bodily resurrection for the elect yet to come in the future"?and Kat knows what I think, to which I replied, "I believe all ,everything, is spiritual" (UNSEEN) and for your twisted version Only Spirit will see God, only Spirit will comprehend GOD, AS...,......... "HE IS THE FATHER OF SPIRITS" AMEN
Exodus 33:18-23
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Sure,can you see Gods FACE ? hence we DIE as "No one has see HIS face and LIVED" and what do we DIE to?, When GOD shows up ? perhaps...all earthy understanding ?
Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
how do we get a PURE heart ? so we can see him ?
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads
Natural cannot see Gods Face, hence Moses's limitation, then
do you see His Name Literally tattooed on Your Forehead ?
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God be with you,
Alex
--- End quote ---
You know, I have never read a paper from Ray about resurrection... but so be It, If you think I am Mocking as apposed to getting one THINKING Spiritually, well then mocking it is, BUT YOU CANNOT DISREGARD the Scriptures I have presented ... you know it and so does Kat and those who have eyes to see.
Perhaps this is another (when one finds out the is in fact no Father Xmas) type of experience.
The Spirit Gives life to "ezekiel's" bone "Vision" you interpret spiritual tendons as real tendons you interpret skin as real skin -
I'm afraid Ye Too, are Yet CARNAL... this however is a state... that is necessary .
You can change the truth for a lie (blaspheme all you like) I would like to add that the scripture does not contradict, Only Spirit begets Spirit -
COULD IT BE, THE ENEMY HAS DECEIVED YOU,SO AS TO NOT HAVE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH HIS POWER ?
Mat 22:29 Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God."
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven." baring Hollywood, how many messengers have you seen ???
Paul has the following to say re the above
2nd witness
1Co 7:29 Now this I am averring, brethren, the era is limited; that, furthermore, those also having wives may be as not having them,
Further,You are saying "dust returns to bones" and these bones get to wear tendons and flesh again and there is no spirit returning to The Father... how can you believe contrary ?surely this deception... wrecks your faith /??
If Ray can state IT WAS A SPIRITUAL VISION,on the one hand re transfiguration, which by the way should give you more insight, I don't believe this present "selective" understanding is appropriate, since, God CHANGES NOT.
Do me a favour dig up a grave say 100 years old - ya wont find bones friend, you that are medically inclined should know, dust does in fact return to dust
God Is Spirit we will be as he is,however it takes the Natural example to show us,Do you cut your hands off when "they" sin?do you pluck your natural "eye" out when "it" sins ?
How would Peter recognise Elijah and Moses on the mount of transfiguration ? correct, according to the SPIRIT
I am not teaching you, I am exposing those who contradict... not one of your scriptures show me we are raised Human - what is NEW ABOUT THAT? perhaps you think the NEW JERUSALEM IS A HUGE REAL PLANET COMING DOWN SUSPENDED WITH CHAINS.
Think about the following...
How do you think God (who we will be like) can be everywhere at once ?Likewise ,re the wicked, how can Satan be "everywhere" restricted obviously to The Fathers authority. UNSEEN
do me another FAVOR friend... pray and pray fervently.
Perhaps I can call you Brother,one day.
ps why not give me your explanation of the scripture i present that would be a 1st
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Rick on July 27, 2015, 02:23:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on July 27, 2015, 03:56:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on July 26, 2015, 10:43:08 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on July 26, 2015, 03:07:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on July 25, 2015, 02:52:30 PM ---
I guess a simple question to you Ian, is do you think there is a literal bodily resurrection for the elect yet to come in the future?
mercy, peace and love
Kathy
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat,you are aware I got banned for this :D...
these are my thoughts below
I believe everything is spiritual, to answer your question Id need a verse x2 to back myself..this I don't have
--- End quote ---
Hello Ian,
Without a 2nd witness of scripture one can make the word of God say anything and you admitted you cannot find a 2nd witness, so you are confronted with 2 Pe 1:20
2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation.
A clue ...are the greeks highly superstitious ? reincarnation,statues,gods etc
Are you aware that bar the ERV Paul is saying to Timothy ,that these two Greek chaps, are actually saying that the resurrection has already occurred?
Also, if everything is spiritual now how do you explain 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
Natural dies when Spirit is poured out
do you know what Born Again/Anew means ? Do you know what a new regenerated Mind Means
Physically can you see a new reborn mind ? can you physically,see the mind of Christ ? -
One can see the minds Fruit ,you cant see an actual mind running around .
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption ( physical ) ( spiritual )
You also mentioned Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Notice Christ said ( like ) not ( are )
Sure he likened them to tombs and DEAD MENS BONES I mean he wasn't addressing tombstones and a bunch of bones was he now
These Pharisees and scribes though they could obtain life by obeying the law but the law only brings death.
True
Rom 7:9 And I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died;
YES,your point ?
Another thing also, if the resurrection has already happen physically then we could do what Christ does I would imagine
( 1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
Joh 20:26 sounds like to me Christ just appeared in a room with the door shut, Christ came through where ? The door ? The door was locked , the walls ? I don’t know He just appeared in the room with them.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Can God’s elect just appear in a room in like manner as Christ did ?
sure, is Ray around when you read his papers ?
--- End quote ---
Check out Acts 19 for more clarity on 2tim 2v18,then let me know what you think is going on in 2 tim 2v18 and Ill respond... most of the other stuff I have answered today.
--- End quote ---
This from Ray.
TRUTH NUMBER 1
[A] "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).
"It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies]; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies]…" (I Cor. 15:44).
[C] "Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY…" (Phil. 3:21).
[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).
The sequence of God’s plan of salvation for mankind is most important—First is the physical and then comes the spiritual.
--- End quote ---
Glad we agree
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Kat on July 27, 2015, 08:49:25 AM ---
Well Ian, you are hanging on to your beliefs that go totally contrary to what Ray taught. You brought up being banned before... why do you think you were? For this very teaching!
You are showing that either you don't understand or either just flat out don't agree with what Ray taught and those of us here also believe. Now what you want to believe is your prerogative, but you cannot bring it here... and even before you put all this up that shows how you specifically believe you were making many comments that indirectly referred to this way of thinking, that just leads to confusion for those who are trying to study what Ray taught, especially those that may be new to these teachings.
Here are a few places that show exactly what Ray had taught on this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4132.0.html -------
COMMENT; NO, neither. We are "begotten anew from above," but we are not literally born again, as we are not yet powerful and invisible like "the WIND." Neither are you "saved" in the past tense. See my paper "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" where I discuss the "sinner's prayer" near the end and how that no Scriptures says that we are "saved" already in the past tense. This also happens when we are given a new spiritual body in our resurrection from the dead.
Here is the key word to all of these misunderstandings you are having. You are talking the words of Rom. 6 literally, whereas we know that they were inspired of Christ's Holy Spirit, and these words are "spirit" (John 6:63). Notice verse 11, after Paul explains all that happens when we are spiritually baptized with Jesus, He then shows how these things apply to us: "Likewise [in like manner as Paul just explained the meaning of all these things in the previous verses]...LIKEWISE
R-E-C-K-O-N you also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED TO SIN, but ALIVE unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11). "Reckon" means to estimate, suppose, count" etc. something to BE what it is not YET fully comprehended or fully come to pass.
(emailer's comment)"...I can no longer sin........do I have to repent.........can I sin after being reborn?"
COMMENT: We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies. Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12). We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you" (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US" (I John 1:8-10).
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html --------------
The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come: "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE. Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1859.0.html -------------
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a NATURAL body, and there is a SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:42-45)
When it says "spiritual" it does not mean "physical."
Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD [that's natural; that's physical] CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
Whereas John 3:3 in the King James says "born again," it would better translated "begotten anew from above." In the Greek there is but one word for both "begotten and born." Only the context can separate the proper use. At present the Elect Saints of God have only the "earnest" of our full spiritual birth into His Kingdom: "...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of PROMISE [a promise of a future fulfilment] Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1309.0.html ------
Is there a difference between "being Saved" and being Born Again?
Vickie
Technically yes, but practically no. Virtually all who are "born again" (Greek is probably "begotten a new" as opposed "to born again". All those begotten a new of God's Holy Spirit are destined for salvation in the First Resurrection. Whereas actual salvation does not occur until the First Resurrection. We must "endure till the end" in order to "be" saved.
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
KAt I will respond later I gota do stuff
John from Kentucky:
Ian,
You wrote:
You know, I have never read a paper from Ray about resurrection... from your reply #45 above.
In my reply #44 above, I quoted a paper from Ray on Resurrection.
As Charlie Chan would say, "Contradiction Please."
John
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 28, 2015, 08:09:06 AM ---Ian,
You wrote:
You know, I have never read a paper from Ray about resurrection... from your reply #45 above.
In my reply #44 above, I quoted a paper from Ray on Resurrection.
As Charlie Chan would say, "Contradiction Please."
John
--- End quote ---
Well Not So Titled ie "Resurrection Paper" as in "Lake of Fire paper" if you get what I mean.. there are some papers with his thoughts in them
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version